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Subject: Request: Rank the following CDG in order of difficulty in learning? rss

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Erich Vereen
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Leland
North Carolina
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Hey folks.

I'm working on my wargame collection, and I have enjoyed a few of the CDGs from GMT. I've played Washington's War and Twilight Struggle (a happy favorite of mine), and I've watched games of For the People. I'm considering making a few purchases, but there are far too many games to choose from at the moment.

I enjoy the period of the War of Northern Aggression.. I mean, the Civil War, and this is one I have thought of picking up. Yet, I enjoy most wargames as a study of history and what ifs, regardless of time periods.

I have a list of potential buys, and I was wondering if anyone could give me their opinion about the 'level' of complexity compared to Washington's War and Twilight Struggle.

Those games are:

Here I Stand
Clash of Monarchs
For the People
Wilderness War
Paths of Glory

To me, Washington's War was simple to learn, but I had someone teaching me the rules as well. If I understand the basics of this game, how do the others fall in line with regards to a learning curve. Are each of these different in a subtle way, or are they completely different?

Thanks in advance, y'all!
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Mitchell Land
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IMO, in order from least to most complex:

Wilderness War
Here I Stand
Paths of Glory
For the People
Clash of Monarchs
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Dan Dolan
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Highland Lakes
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here I stand
clash of monarchs
wilderness war
for the people
paths of glory
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Christopher Hill
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Wilmington
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Hey Erich,

The only one on your list I have played is For the People, so I can't comment on the rest.

For the People is Washington's War on steroids. Although it uses the same card driven mechanic, there are a lot more rules to remember. Once you have played it though, it flows along pretty nicely in subsequent plays. It does take about six hours to play the full campaign game so some dedication is also a pre-requisite.

Any time you think you are ready to give it a go, just let me know.
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James Lowry
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If you can manage four players, I would also recommend Successors (third edition), which should be on the lighter end of the scale. I've had a great time every time I've played, and only don't play it that much because our group usually has 5-6 people show up.

Pursuit of Glory weighs in slightly more complex than PoG (which is the only one on your list I've played, so I can't rank them), thanks to extra chrome, but I think it captures the feel of the conflict much better because of it. It's still clawing it's way past other favorites of mine.

My understanding (backed up by other Toadkillerdog's list) is that Wilderness War is about as simple as CDGs get. Successors should be in the same neighborhood, by my understanding. Hopefully, I'll get to play Here I Stand soon, and find out how complex that is....
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Joel Furman
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Elmhurst
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I own, but unfortunately have not yet had the pleasure to play, both Wilderness War and Here I Stand. I am also interested in the other games you mention so I will definitely be following this thread.

For my own education I looked up the BGG "Average Weight" metric listed on each game's home page to see what BGG users in general think about this topic. I have listed those values below in order from lightest to heaviest. I will be interested to see where and why individual folks' opinions vary from the consensus.

Wilderness War 3.2
For the People 3.6
Paths of Glory 3.8
Clash of Monarchs 3.9
Here I Stand 4.0

For comparison, the other games mentioned check in as follows:

Washington's War 2.7
Twilight Struggle 3.3
Successors (third edition) 3.3
Pursuit of Glory 3.8

Sounds like there could be a geeklist in there somewhere...probably somebody's already made it. :)
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Borat Sagdiyev
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I wouldn't trust those weight ratings very much.

My perception is that games with 'crossover' potential such as TS, PoG or HIS get a lot of high ratings from the non-wargaming crowd while more complex games such as PuG, FtP or CoM are usually rated only by wargamers and thus get a more moderate rating.
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Carl
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I've played all the games you mention. I would rank them in order of least difficult to most difficult to learn as follows:

Wilderness War
Paths of Glory
For the People
Here I Stand
Clash of Monarchs

They are all excellent games.
Wilderness War is definitely the simplest of them to learn - a short tight rulebook and few (if any) exceptions.

PoG has a straight forward system as such but quite a few exceptions; there are some good player aids here on BGG that help with the learning curve.

FtP has a massive rulebook but that's b/c Mark Herman likes covering every possible angle to deal with potential rules lawyers; it is actually not that difficult a system at all. The river rules can be tricky but once a few basic principles are understood, it all makes sense.

Here I Stand has the one of the very best rulebooks in wargames. And therefore it is not too difficult to learn if you can handle a large ruleset. What does make it challenging is that each power has power-specific rules, thereby necessarily ramping up the complexity. But b/c the rules are so well explained, it does all fall into place.

CoM has an extremely compact rulebook at the cost of clarity and ease of understanding. It is definitely the most complex of the games and the most difficult to learn. It does look like an excellent game though and I look forward to playing a campaign to completion one day.

Hope this helps! You can't go wrong with any of these games really but I would stay away from CoM for now if you are concerned about having difficulty learning the game.
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Steve
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Flagstaff
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Least to most:

Wilderness War
Here I Stand
Paths of Glory
Clash of Monarchs
For the People
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Erich Vereen
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Leland
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Thanks everyone for the information. I've picked up Labyrinth recently, and I think my next purchase will be For the People. I appreciate all the thoughts and information given thus far ^_^
 
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