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Descent: The Road to Legend» Forums » Strategy

Subject: My Alric goes to Tamalir, heroes in despair! rss

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Oscar Cardfelt
Sweden
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Hi,

I saw a similar Topic, but it was regarding gold level.
Anyway, I had my first go at RtL yeasterday. Quick lineup:

OL (me):
Titan, greater ogres,

Heroes:
Sir Valadir, ox tatoo
Landrec, *something*
Steelhorns, knight
Ronan, *something*

cannot remember *something* right now, was probably not very powerful anyway. Just imagine a slightly above average skill.

Quick recap of events:

week 1
Sir alric goes south.
Heroes go to Thelswan causeway dungeon. Dungeon becomes 13-7 OL favor.

week 2
Sir Alric goes south to red echo river.
I buy 1 monster treachery.
Heroes Stay in Tamalir shopping and whatnot.

week 3
Sir Alric comes to Tamlir (does not initiate encounter)
Heroes stay and challange Alric to fight. They see he is way to tough for them and flee..

("What, Ironskin and Regen 5!!")

From here on they just start whine about how they cannot win. They see no problem with me going to Tamalir, They want me to play to the best of my ability. But the do not se how they puny copperheroes can take on mighty Alric. So I need advice (?) how to beat my own Alric! They have four weeks in which they must become strong enough to take on Alric, before he razes Tamalir.

With the problem recognized, here are my thoughts:

* They gave me too much Conquest in the dungeon in week 1 (mainly at 2nd dungeon level).

* They spent week 2 and 3 inefficiently?

* They didnt prepare well for Alric; no potions, no spectacular copper items. Alric should be able to take down with power and fatigue potions?

What would you crafty Rtl hero players have done differently?
 
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Mark McG
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do you have siege engines?

One option is the heroes attack Alric regardless, take their lumps and wear him down. They might lose a bunch of CT, but save the game.
 
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Oscar Cardfelt
Sweden
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I do not have siege engines. They seem to be best bought as a surprise, when the heroes think they have more time from town than they really do..devil

Wearing down is not possible with luitenants. Either you beat them, or you don't. There is a heroe power threshold that must be reached for reasonable chance at success. If the heroes are not successful, they start from the same possition next try. They need to expend resources in forms of potions and giving me CT resources. Each time they try and fail a charge can make the boss even tougher next time. I might sound overly pessimistic though.

I am arguing from a mostly theoretical point of view though, and havent had much actual experience with the campaign. I really hope that someone will tell me that it is indeed possible for copper heroes around week 8 to take on Alric, and their view on how it can be performed (what items, who goes where what round on the encounter map and so on).
 
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Ger Lam
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The big equalizer is simply equipment. If you are attempting to siege Tamalir, they MAY push on into a third dungeon level before fleeing, just for money and treasure.
While Alric has Ironskin and Unstoppable, he's still vulnerable enough to plain damage output.

A lot depends on the heroes and the place they draw for battle, but with average copper weapons and some potions it's very realistic.
Their big chance is cutting a path through to Alric, and use a fatigue potion to move next to him with a battle action, and block his way off the board.

Remember: If a LT is defeated, all other stuff is also defeated(flee's), and he stays dead. So actually letting it come to blows with the heroes is dangerous business. With some average rolls and average equipment, they will still wind up with about 10 damage a roll. with 6 attacks(from battle actions, and one missing, thats still about 25 damage, only 5 of which he will regenerate...some lucky rolls or more people getting attacks in, and he's a goner fast.

As for the mooks blocking the path and your treachery, their usefulnessw ill depend partly on the area the battle takes place in, the heroes and their preparations.

All in all, 8 game weeks can be a long time, if you don't waste it and play careful(Healing at temple, saving up fat pots, ) they can be well the equal to alric...and he's the _best_ leutnant in terms of all-game-utility, in my eyes. Most of the others have to flee once the heroes get even the bronze webbing ranged weapon...

If they mess up in their play, you get silver monsters, some points of treachery, and reinforce the siege with merrick/mia, they'll have a problem. But as far as i know, tamalir win IS what the titan needs to do...
 
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duhtch
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Minedog3 wrote:
do you have siege engines?

One option is the heroes attack Alric regardless, take their lumps and wear him down. They might lose a bunch of CT, but save the game.


um...i don't think you know how LT encounters work. you don't wear the LT down. the LT's wounds get reset every encounter.

regards to the OP: your thoughts are correct. power potions and fatigue potions. plus copper items they have a good chance at taking out alric, especially if you haven't upgraded monsters yet.

they still have many weeks until they actually need to fight alric still.
 
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Oscar Cardfelt
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Thank you, you have saved me from restless nights. I think I will have to simulate some enqounters to really believe it myself though. Now I can show my fellow heroes that the encounter is not impossible, they just need better planing and preparing.

MordredofFairy wrote:
The big equalizer is simply equipment. If you are attempting to siege Tamalir, they MAY push on into a third dungeon level before fleeing, just for money and treasure.
While Alric has Ironskin and Unstoppable, he's still vulnerable enough to plain damage output.

A lot depends on the heroes and the place they draw for battle, but with average copper weapons and some potions it's very realistic.
Their big chance is cutting a path through to Alric, and use a fatigue potion to move next to him with a battle action, and block his way off the board.

Remember: If a LT is defeated, all other stuff is also defeated(flee's), and he stays dead. So actually letting it come to blows with the heroes is dangerous business. With some average rolls and average equipment, they will still wind up with about 10 damage a roll. with 6 attacks(from battle actions, and one missing, thats still about 25 damage, only 5 of which he will regenerate...some lucky rolls or more people getting attacks in, and he's a goner fast.

As for the mooks blocking the path and your treachery, their usefulnessw ill depend partly on the area the battle takes place in, the heroes and their preparations.

All in all, 8 game weeks can be a long time, if you don't waste it and play careful(Healing at temple, saving up fat pots, ) they can be well the equal to alric...and he's the _best_ leutnant in terms of all-game-utility, in my eyes. Most of the others have to flee once the heroes get even the bronze webbing ranged weapon...

If they mess up in their play, you get silver monsters, some points of treachery, and reinforce the siege with merrick/mia, they'll have a problem. But as far as i know, tamalir win IS what the titan needs to do...


I was actually hoping for a more indirect brooding evil, rather than a direct confrontational one, as in the Titans case... But warlords will know to fear his rage!

I also did not know about the rest fleeing-part, thanks on that one!

duhtch wrote:

um...i don't think you know how LT encounters work. you don't wear the LT down. the LT's wounds get reset every encounter.

regards to the OP: your thoughts are correct. power potions and fatigue potions. plus copper items they have a good chance at taking out alric, especially if you haven't upgraded monsters yet.

they still have many weeks until they actually need to fight alric still.


We will start over the campaign, mainly because more want to join. I guess the will take better countermessures now that they now that Alric is the real deal.
 
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Ger Lam
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and just on a side note: any avatar could, technically, do that same thing by blowing starting upgrades on a transport stone...as in, instasiege tamalir with alric.

so yes, there HAS to be a chance for heroes against that- ^_^ reassure them of that, and possibly let them run through the battle 2 or 3 times -
 
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Oscar Cardfelt
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I ran a couple of simulations of an encounter against Alric; one with with heroes having potions+treasures, and one with only starting equipment. The outcome was completely different. I have known that potions make a difference, but never that the amount of difference they make would be so huge!

I have talked to my fellow heroes about it, and they would like to start a new one, playing serious this time! I guess it was too much new stuff all at once for them to take in the first time, but they learn...
 
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Victor Lesperance
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I was reading this topic since my band of heroes just got their bottocks spanked by Alric. And we have mined every copper treasure minus one. And we did exactly what others suggested, a quick bluff and we suddenly surrounded Alric so he couldn't leave the board.

Now, maybe it was the bad location draw. All melee attacks got -2 damage. But, we were only clearing about 6 damage per hit, his armor absorbed 4ish, so we did about 12-15 damage, he regenned 5, then he and his cohorts nuked the mage. The next round we did 10 damage, he healed 5 and they nuked the rogue. At this point the two fighters retreated before we lost even more conquest.

Add that we've been forced to run from every dungeon thus far, and I have serious game balance questions.

This was our first campaign, but we've played the basic version a plenty. We had no balance issues until we met dungeon bosses in a copper campaign. Even when we clear the room and surround the bosses in battle mode, they're effectively immortal to us.



 
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Mark McG
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vlesperance wrote:

This was our first campaign, but we've played the basic version a plenty. We had no balance issues until we met dungeon bosses in a copper campaign. Even when we clear the room and surround the bosses in battle mode, they're effectively immortal to us.


What sort of minimum damage are your fighters dealing out (assuming a hit)?

I don't have the spreadsheet, but I know Laughin Baldar is dealing a 10-16 range, and Karnon is rolling 5 Power dice. Each of them is routinely dealing 12-13 wounds per attack after one dungeon (all 3 levels) and a City buying spree..

 
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Victor Lesperance
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Man, it seems like everyone else is in another power band.

We're playing vanilla + RtL.
We randomly drew heroes and skills.
We actually have most of the copper treasures equipped (it helped to roll 4 blanks on the first chest. Woot!)

And all 4 of us are only averaging 7 damage a hit....

Heroes with all damage relevant add-ons:

Varikas, Dragontooth hammer - Averages 7ish, pierce 2
One fist, sword, belt of strength - Averages 7ish
Ispher, Great Bow - Averages 3ish, pierce 2
Landrec, (Pacify or Bane), prodigy - Averages 7ish (Pacify) or 5/blast3 (bane)

 
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Ger Lam
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well, with 2 melee heroes, getting a -2 on melee damage is a very bad draw.
Especially considering that landrec-prodigy with a shop-axe will deal more damage in melee despite having no dice.(just saying).

Also, if you saved up fatigue potions, then that should help somewhat. As said, you only need to drop this one guy. He has unpiercable armor and regens, so you need to have as high individual damage output as possible.

As said, your Landrec, with a R+G shop axe, would do 4+roll damage, average 9 or so.

Also, spending a power potion(or fatigue potion, if you don't have power) on an attack can vastly increase the damage throughput after reducing it by alrics armor.

Really, do run a simulation, you had a good go there, the tactics was sound, but the location was awful for your team, and the equipment not optimaly choosen. If you can even get one person to about 10 damage, with a battle action that _IS_ 10 damage from one hero. Do that with 2, and you're at 20 damage. It can be close, but if you succeed, alric will not pester you ever again...so they payoff is as great as the risk. You stand to lose your full CT value. The OL stands to lose one of his limited leutnants, and the most survivable, at that.
 
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Cameron Hawkins
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Alric, and Road to Legend in general, are very difficult if you have no expansions. If the Overlord is attempting to raze Tamalir quickly (in the first 10 weeks) and the campaign is new for everyone, it can be very difficult to defeat Alric. Simply put, the Overlord has only 1 choice to make- go to Tamalir and wait. The heroes, on the other hand, need to make a bajillion good choices about how to proceed, how to get good treasures, and how to prepare for the fight. If they're badly-equipped, they won't stand a chance- end of story. For the heroes' first campaign or two, the Overlord might need to excercise a little restraint. It's a lot easier to win as the Overlord.

In your situation, where you're limited in potions, skills, and some of the best treasures, the heroes need to build their arsenal very fast. I would start by getting Mighty and Inner Fire from Tamalir, maybe some dice, if they have the money. They should also be very well-stocked in potions- they should be putting potions "in the bank" so to speak and flee dungeons rather than use them. Good armor is a must, and should be taken as soon as possible. When fighting Alric, locations can be key. If it's a really bad one, see if you can flee and hope for a better one (if you can risk a razing roll). If the location is good, the heroes should kill the minions first, starting with high-damage-dealers. They should have them all dispatched by the middle of their second turn (Blast weapons can really help here). Alric can only reinforce a couple monsters in that time. After that, just pray for no misses.

It doesn't come easy, but it is possible.
 
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