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Subject: a "Grand Market" question... rss

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John Van Wagoner
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rules say to, if possible, follow all instructions on each card in order (top to bottom)...so my question is with the Grand Market card:

+1 card
+1 action
+1 buy
+2 gold

do you get the 2 gold to use this turn, in a buy? or does the buy happen first, and when all buys are done you put 2 gold on the table (and then straight to your discard pile)? thanks...
 
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James Newton
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The +2 coins is two coins of "currency" to spend in your buy phase - not gold, and not any kind of treasure card.

Treasure cards (such as gold) also generate coins to spend. But what you spend are the coins generated by cards played, not actual cards, and so action cards with +coins are generating spending power, not acquiring cards.

So Grand Market is:
+1 card - i.e. draw a card into your hand
+1 action - you may play an additional action during your action phase (after completing this one)
+1 buy - you may buy an extra card during your buy phase
+2 coins - you have an additional 2 coins of spending power during your buy phase.
(Also, you may not buy one if you have any Copper in play in your buy phase.)

I hope this makes it clear - I expect others can put it clearer than I.
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Robert M
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John_VW wrote:
rules say to, if possible, follow all instructions on each card in order (top to bottom)...so my question is with the Grand Market card:

+1 card
+1 action
+1 buy
+2 gold

do you get the 2 gold to use this turn, in a buy? or does the buy happen first, and when all buys are done you put 2 gold on the table (and then straight to your discard pile)? thanks...


+1 action means add another action to the total you can play this turn
+1 buy means add one card to the total you can buy this turn (not buy right now)
+2 gold (really +2 coins) means add 2 value to your coins for the buy phase this turn, so if you also played a gold from your hand you would have a total of 5 coins to spend
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Dave G
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John_VW wrote:
rules say to, if possible, follow all instructions on each card in order (top to bottom)...so my question is with the Grand Market card:

+1 card
+1 action
+1 buy
+2 gold

do you get the 2 gold to use this turn, in a buy? or does the buy happen first, and when all buys are done you put 2 gold on the table (and then straight to your discard pile)? thanks...


The card doesn't say +2 Gold. Like all the +Treasure cards, it is giving you two more treasure to spend in your buy phase this turn.

It helps to make sure you use the right terminology for Dominion. The little coin symbol doesn't mean "Gold." It means "Treasure." "Gold" is the "Treasure" that gives you 3 buying power.

This is true on any card that shows a +Treasure icon. Woodcutter adds two to your buying power this turn. Market adds one.
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james lima
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The +Card ability means that you immediately draw that many cards. All the other + abilities just mean you get the opportunity to do those things in your turn. For example, if you had a card that said:

Do some stuff
+1 Card
+1 Action
Do some other stuff.

You would "do some stuff" before you drew your card, but you don't play another action card before you "do some other stuff". The +1 Action part means you immediately go from getting 1 action for the turn to getting 2 actions for that turn - one of which you already used up.

So the +1 Buy in the Market card (and other cards) means that when you get to your buy phase, instead of having 1 Buy, you have 2... Instead of starting your buy phase with 0 treasure to spend before you play your treasures from your hand, you start with 2...
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John Van Wagoner
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churchmouse wrote:
The +2 coins is two coins of "currency" to spend in your buy phase - not gold, and not any kind of treasure card.

Treasure cards (such as gold) also generate coins to spend. But what you spend are the coins generated by cards played, not actual cards, and so action cards with +coins are generating spending power, not acquiring cards.

So Grand Market is:
+1 card - i.e. draw a card into your hand
+1 action - you may play an additional action during your action phase (after completing this one)
+1 buy - you may buy an extra card during your buy phase
+2 coins - you have an additional 2 coins of spending power during your buy phase.
(Also, you may not buy one if you have any Copper in play in your buy phase.)

I hope this makes it clear - I expect others can put it clearer than I.

OH......we've been playing it wrong all along...we both thought you took the 2G, used it this turn AND also placed it in your discard pile...apparently, it's really just a 2G bonus (for the current turn only), and it ends there...no wonder we loved this card !!! thanks...
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James Newton
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John_VW wrote:
churchmouse wrote:
The +2 coins is two coins of "currency" to spend in your buy phase - not gold, and not any kind of treasure card.

Treasure cards (such as gold) also generate coins to spend. But what you spend are the coins generated by cards played, not actual cards, and so action cards with +coins are generating spending power, not acquiring cards.

So Grand Market is:
+1 card - i.e. draw a card into your hand
+1 action - you may play an additional action during your action phase (after completing this one)
+1 buy - you may buy an extra card during your buy phase
+2 coins - you have an additional 2 coins of spending power during your buy phase.
(Also, you may not buy one if you have any Copper in play in your buy phase.)

I hope this makes it clear - I expect others can put it clearer than I.

OH......we've been playing it wrong all along...we both thought you took the 2G, used it this turn AND also placed it in your discard pile...apparently, it's really just a 2G bonus (for the current turn only), and it ends there...no wonder we loved this card !!! thanks...

Which begs the question, how have you been playing all the other action cards with +coins?
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Robert M
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John_VW wrote:
apparently, it's really just a 2G bonus (for the current turn only), and it ends there...no wonder we loved this card !!! thanks...


and by 2G you mean 2 coins (same as the value of a silver or 2 copper)
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Dave G
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John_VW wrote:

OH......we've been playing it wrong all along...we both thought you took the 2G, used it this turn AND also placed it in your discard pile...apparently, it's really just a 2G bonus (for the current turn only), and it ends there...no wonder we loved this card !!! thanks...


Grand Market is from Prosperity....how were you playing Woodcutter or Market? That's a pretty huge mistake to not notice until the fourth expansion!
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Dave G
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rmartinc wrote:
John_VW wrote:
apparently, it's really just a 2G bonus (for the current turn only), and it ends there...no wonder we loved this card !!! thanks...


and by 2G you mean 2 coins (same as the value of a silver or 2 copper)


This! Remember to stop referring to "coins" or "treasure" as "gold." Gold is a specific thing in the world of Dominion.
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John Van Wagoner
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
John_VW wrote:

OH......we've been playing it wrong all along...we both thought you took the 2G, used it this turn AND also placed it in your discard pile...apparently, it's really just a 2G bonus (for the current turn only), and it ends there...no wonder we loved this card !!! thanks...


Grand Market is from Prosperity....how were you playing Woodcutter or Market? That's a pretty huge mistake to not notice until the fourth expansion!

we bought base game, prosp, seaside, intrigue, and alchemy expansions all at the same time...and we started out mixing/matching after 2 games using the suggested setup (and base game cards only)...but yes, we obv have been playing ALL those cards wrong (only been playing 2 weeks though)...somewhere along the line we just assumed the "+2 gold" meant you literally put a 2G into your discard pile...glad i asked now, before we'd gone on much longer...thanks again everyone...
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DC
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Dominion is a game which relies heavily on specific terminology. "Treasure" is a type of card. "Gold" is a type of treasure card. "Coins" are the unit of currency, which "treasure", "gold", and many other cards give you.

If you are extremely literal-minded and keep the terminology very carefully separated in your head, that will help a lot.
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Dave G
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dcclark wrote:
Dominion is a game which relies heavily on specific terminology. "Treasure" is a type of card. "Gold" is a type of treasure card. "Coins" are the unit of currency, which "treasure", "gold", and many other cards give you.

If you are extremely literal-minded and keep the terminology very carefully separated in your head, that will help a lot.


Reading the rules, too.
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Nate S
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John_VW wrote:
"+2 gold"

Just to underscore the point, you really need to get out of the habit of using the word "gold" this way. It's +2 coins, not +2 gold. "Coins" are the currency you use to buy cards. Coins are not cards; think of +coin effects as adding to the bank account you will use during your buy phase. "Gold" is a Treasure card that gives +3 coins when played.

Anytime a card says "+<number><coin symbol>", it adds that number of coins to your bank account for the turn.
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Matthew Cordeiro
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As many have said before, "coins" is the term you should be using in place of "gold". If it helps, think of it as dollars. A copper provides $1, silver $2, and gold $3. Grand market provides $2 to spend. Again, "coins" is the proper term, but hopefully the dollar analogy helps. For example, a gold costs 6 coins to buy and provides 3 coins to spend.
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Paul W
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I've managed to get along just fine referring to at as "gold" often enough when the meaning's clear from context. Gold, gold, gold. I'm breaking the game!
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Nate S
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fizzmore wrote:
I've managed to get along just fine referring to at as "gold" often enough when the meaning's clear from context. Gold, gold, gold. I'm breaking the game!

Even if it's clear from context to you, just... please don't teach new players with this terminology. It is not going to be clear from context to them and will lead to endless confusion, like the OP's.
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Paul W
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I'm a bit more careful with new players, but I find they make the distinction just fine....English is full of homonyms after all. Maybe someday I'll run into someone confused enough by it to be more strict, but until that day comes I'm not going to get my shorts in a bunch about it.
 
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Kevin Costello
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fizzmore wrote:
I'm a bit more careful with new players, but I find they make the distinction just fine....English is full of homonyms after all. Maybe someday I'll run into someone confused enough by it to be more strict, but until that day comes I'm not going to get my shorts in a bunch about it.


Sure, but in the context of a rules question, you've got to use the correct terminology. Its almost impossible to even answer the OPs question at all without clarifying the distinction between coin and gold. I mean, I'm still not sure if the OP understands the rule now, since its not clear what exactly he was even doing in the first place. He's been treating +coin as adding cards into his discard pile, but has he been gaining 2 coppers, 2 golds, one silver? Presumably this thread has helped him understand that +coin cards don't give you treasure cards, but I'm not 100% sure if he's getting the right coin value when he plays a Grand Market.
 
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John Van Wagoner
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kevincos wrote:
fizzmore wrote:
I'm a bit more careful with new players, but I find they make the distinction just fine....English is full of homonyms after all. Maybe someday I'll run into someone confused enough by it to be more strict, but until that day comes I'm not going to get my shorts in a bunch about it.


Sure, but in the context of a rules question, you've got to use the correct terminology. Its almost impossible to even answer the OPs question at all without clarifying the distinction between coin and gold. I mean, I'm still not sure if the OP understands the rule now, since its not clear what exactly he was even doing in the first place. He's been treating +coin as adding cards into his discard pile, but has he been gaining 2 coppers, 2 golds, one silver? Presumably this thread has helped him understand that +coin cards don't give you treasure cards, but I'm not 100% sure if he's getting the right coin value when he plays a Grand Market.

we were adding 1 silver if the card said "+2 coins"...we used +2 for the current turn's buy, but then also added the silver card to our discard...
 
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Thomas Brendel
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Maybe you hadn't gotten around to using it yet, but I'm curious how you would have interpreted a card like Salvager (+1 Buy, trash a card from your hand, +Coins equal to the value of the trashed card).
 
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John Van Wagoner
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Squidd wrote:
Maybe you hadn't gotten around to using it yet, but I'm curious how you would have interpreted a card like Salvager (+1 Buy, trash a card from your hand, +Coins equal to the value of the trashed card).
shakehadn't used that card yet...
 
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John Anderson
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John_VW wrote:
Squidd wrote:
Maybe you hadn't gotten around to using it yet, but I'm curious how you would have interpreted a card like Salvager (+1 Buy, trash a card from your hand, +Coins equal to the value of the trashed card).
shakehadn't used that card yet...
On the upside, it will be a good card to show your friends if they don't believe you when you bring up the correct rule.
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John Van Wagoner
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my wife will probably want to "erase all my wins" now!! shake
 
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Kevin Elmore
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churchmouse wrote:
(Also, you may not buy one if you have any Copper in play in your buy phase.)


Just to add to this, you may not buy the Grand Market if you choose to play Coppers. You could have two Gold and eight Coppers in your hand, but you can choose to play only the two Gold so you can buy the Grand Market.

Also, +1 Coin cards do not count as Copper (Herbalist, Quarry, etc.). Only Copper counts as Copper, even if you soup them up with a Coppersmith.

As others have said, Dominion's rules are fairly technical. You do have to treat them literally.

Kevin
 
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