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Subject: QPnP Sunrise City rss

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Isaias Vallejo
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A new entry for the PnP contest.
Quick Print and Play Design Challenge - General Discussion Thread

CARDS
http://grimvalleygames.com/game/sunrise-city/sunrisecitycard...

CARD BACKS
http://grimvalleygames.com/game/sunrise-city/sunrisecitycard...

RULES
http://grimvalleygames.com/game/sunrise-city/sunrisecityrule...

Introduction
In Sunrise City, 2-4 players take on different roles to build up Sunrise
City. As one of the founding fathers, you want to make sure to make a
great city, but, most of all you want to make sure your efforts are
recognized by the world
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Iffix Y Santaph
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Considering Scavengers, I expect this game to be really great.
 
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Jack Neal
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Definitely an interesting idea. I'm anxious to see how it does in playtesting.
 
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Dave Graffam
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
How about doing away with the game board, and letting the zoning cards build the board?

You could incorporate utilities with the zoning cards. Maybe you can only place a new zoning card if it has utilities hookups with its neighbor. You could have some zoning cards with hookups on 1, 2, 3 or all 4 sides. That might encourage some interesting development patterns, and give players another reason to bid higher or lower on certain zones/parcels.
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Great suggestions, David!

I was considering adding roads but that seemed like unnecessary components. But the utility lines are definitely interesting. Right now, I'm just a bit iffy about changing rules before I get a chance to play test as is. But if I were to do it....

As it stands, I have 4 different colors for zones that stand for: Industrial, Commercial, Residential, and Parks/Recreation. Each would get 9 cards. So if I divvy up a set with different utility edges, then I'd probably break it down like:
3 - 4-way
2 - 3-way
2 - 2-way across
2 - 2-way cornered

As for dropping the game board, I originally thought about doing this without a game board but then started writing the rules and needed to define a parcel to place the Zone marker. This made explaining where the bidding is taking place much simpler. I also wanted the ability to define some borders or dead zones to try and control city growth. For example, it would be possible to create a city that is 1 parcel high but 20 in length. This would break the immersion I think I'm going for...
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Actually, I just realized I can't have each set of colors be exactly the same or I won't be able to vary the points in the buildings. So, I'll tweak that a bit.
 
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Jack Neal
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
You could also put different zone combinations on a few tiles and/or create wildcard zones.
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Thanks for the suggestion, Jack. I have 4 Wild's at the moment for Zone cards.

The break down is now:
Red = Residential = 12
Blue = Commercial = 10
Yellow = Industrial = 8
Green = Parks/Recreation = 6
Purple = Combination (Wild) = 4

Here's a quick mock-up of a green zone with the electrical wires running to all 4 sides.
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Yeah, you're right, David. I need to get rid of this game board. Just wish I was better at writing rules. blush
 
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Shane Ryan
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
seems quite good...
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Thanks, Iffix!
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Thanks, Shane!

I tweaked the rules just a bit to throw out the game board.

Let me know if you have feedback/questions/etc.
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Basic cards uploaded. You can find the links at the top of this post. These are very basic cards just for play testing so forgive the bare-bones design.

 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Interesting play testing session tonight. A few things came up:

1. Zoning was a bit slow since we were only laying down one zone per round. We changed it so that each player got to pick a contested zone. This would change it so that each round, the amount of zone's on a map would grow according to how many players are playing.

2. Starting off with 1 building to base your strategy on was not enough. We changed it to having 2 in hand. This worked out pretty well, but still may need to be tweaked. A thought I had while playing was to have three buildings face up next to the board. Players could use their bid markers to claim the buildings. This might suck because then people will know what you have and they'll actively work to screw you over.

3. Since there are only so many points out there, it stands to reason that you may be able to get so ahead no one can catch up to you. I welcome any thoughts to fix this.

4. As the rules are written, the first player kept switching according to who won the last phase. This muddied up the sequence of events as we struggled to remember who was first in a certain point in the game. I'm thinking of changing this so that the role cards define the turn order for each phase for the rest of the round.

5. During the zone bid phase, instead of discarding sets we decided to treat it as a cumulative bid. So, I could put down a Red card in front of me to start. My opponent would put 2 Blue. I could then add 2 Red to add to my 1 Red to make 3 to beat his 2 Blue. We also decided that since Purple was wild it could be added to any bid.

6. During the Parcel Purchasing phase, it didn't make sense to let someone jump to an adjacent parcel and just shift focus from the original parcel. We decided that if you did make a bid on an adjacent parcel, then the person who last bid in the other zone would win that bid. Essentially, during this phase it's possible that all players could win a parcel or that one player could win more than one parcel.

7. The Score Tracker needs to be changed into a continuous loop since we lapped the 35 points somehow.

Any feedback is appreciated.
 
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Shane Ryan
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Score tracker, easy fix continuos loop & have a card that states 35 points recieve this card when you go around track once, look forward to hopefully playing sometime, but may not end up being until voting period SORRY!
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Good idea, Shane! I'll do that. Also, the file for the components is a bit borked right now since it starts at 1 point but it should start at 0.
 
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Shane Ryan
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
no problem glad to help a fellow geek, thats why we have this community!
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Just had another thought before play testing tonight!

I'm thinking of adding a Rent and probably a Taxes stage as well. Instead of giving players 6 bid markers with specific denominations, they would start the game with 20 coins each.

So, at the beginning of the round you would get Rent equal to the value of the buildings you've made. For example, I have a 2 point building and a 6 point building. In the beginning of the round I would get 8 coins.

For Taxes, at the end of the round you would have to pay 20% (rounded down) of total sum of their buildings. For example, if I had the same buildings as above, I would have to give up 2 coins. These coins will be given to the losing player. If tied, the coins would be split. If I can't afford to give these points up at the end of the round, I would lose VP equal to the total number coins I would have had to give up. I would lose 10 VP. This will hopefully curb some of the runaway leads people could get.
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Any different suggestions for the game name? I'm not really in love with it.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
isaiasvallejo42 wrote:
Any different suggestions for the game name? I'm not really in love with it.

I really like the name as a name, but it sounds a bit post-apocalyptic to me for some reason.

City Founders
Crescendo City (subtle allusion to growing)

Nothing else coming to mind for now.
 
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Shane Ryan
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
haha reminds me of simcity...

SimCity--The Board Game...probably a copyright broken if you use that but might give you some ideas?


Looking forward to your games They are seeming GREAT!!!
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Thanks for the suggestions, Kevin. I like Crescendo City and it keeps the initial intent I had with 'sunrise'. My wife also suggested Blossom City. My only fear with Crescendo is it's music ties and I don't want people to think they're building a musical city.

City Founders is another great suggestion. Do you think I'd have to change my role cards to something a bit more .... founderish?

I think maybe because Scavengers is a post-apocalyptic game I really wanted to do something quite opposite with this game... sad to hear the title still reminds you of that theme. I actually imagined this game with more of a clean post-modern look. I love the imagery of skyscrapers and buildings in the 50s. Just hope I can find some good art with that feel but still be a top down perspective.


Thanks for the words of encouragement, Shane. Most of the time I feel like I'm just blindly stabbing in the dark. Can't use Sim City unfortunately.
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Any thoughts on replacing bid markers with 'coins'? Bid markers really add a good level of strategy, but I need a way to level people out at the end of rounds so someone doesn't get a runaway lead.
 
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
On the subject of rent and taxes, I'd try to stay away from calculations as much as possible. Players could earn rents as you have noted but it would be better to have a flat tax...1 coin per building...or 1 coin for buildings 4 or smaller and 2 coins for buildings 5 or larger.
 
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Re: Sunrise City - WIP
Also, in your available Roles, I'd suggest swapping the abilities of the City Planner and Mayor....seems a little more theme-appropriate.
 
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