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Subject: Problem with GMT counters rss

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Rafaell Cobra
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Hi,

First of All let me say that I really like GMT's games and products. Theirs customer service is incredibly firendly and proffessional. Theres nothing not to like with this company. Really.

I am not whining here but there is one issue I just do not understand.

I have just received a replacement counter sheet from GMT. Kiev to Rostow one.

It is ok, slightly moved to the right.

What I do not get is how the counters are pre cut. Some widths are nearly 1cm while others of course close to 15mm. All should be 12,75 mm ie 0,5".
Well, 2mm for a counter do not seems much but if You will stack it with an oversized one it is a lot.

Why is it so hard to cut them right?
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IIRC differing widths used to be more common in older games, like Avalon Hill. But I've never encountered that in a GMT game. I'm pretty sure if you ask they'll send you yet another sheet.
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Rafaell Cobra
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I think that they would but as it would be a second replacement of the same countersheet i do not want to claim for it. It is a Russian front, You can easily replace one Russian division with another so it is not a big deal. I still wonder how is it make?
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I don't have any experience in printing/cutting, but I assume the cause is that the cutting template gets worn out over time.
 
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Enrico Viglino
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Simon Mueller wrote:
IIRC differing widths used to be more common in older games, like Avalon Hill..


Yeah. There would regularly be one column that was significantly
larger than all the other counters. Annoying as hell.

GMT definitely seems to have a problem though - look at these:



Some of them are twice the size of others. :D
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Iain K
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I believe that counters are cut by pressing two platens together, one of which has a grid of blades on it, like hundreds of square cookie cutters.

GMT's die cutting supplier seems to be having problems with the position / alignment of several individual blades. When blades are out of position, the resulting counters have a variety of widths, some are wide, some narrow. Sometimes one or two blades are way off. Other times many blades are off, but none grossly.

It's not rocket science, a visual inspection at the beginning of the run would catch this sort of problem. Poor quality assurance and tool making seem to be the issue here.

MMP had a similar problem with a few counters in the OCS title Baltic Gap.

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Corporal Dave
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Simon Mueller wrote:
I don't have any experience in printing/cutting, but I assume the cause is that the cutting template gets worn out over time.


Is that why I had to cut my Fields of Fire counters with a knife over a few days? Dull blade on the template?
 
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Rafaell Cobra
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citizen k wrote:
GMT's die cutting supplier seems to be having problems with the position / alignment of several individual blades. When blades are out of position, the resulting counters have a variety of widths, some are wide, some narrow. Sometimes one or two blades are way off. Other times many blades are off, but none grossly.

It's not rocket science, a visual inspection at the beginning of the run would catch this sort of problem. Poor quality assurance and tool making seem to be the issue here.

MMP had a similar problem with a few counters in the OCS title Baltic Gap.



Exactly, this is not a rocket science!

Hey GMT! Will You help us to understand whats going on? It is a pity that some lame inspections of some lose blades are ruining someones else hard work. (designers, artists, developers etc...)



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Hawkeye
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Where are GMT's counters printed?
 
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Brian Morris
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GMT sort of bounces around. They were printing their games in the US but it seems in the last two years they've switched to China. Unhappy King Charles and Halls of Montezuma which were printed a few years back were printed in the US while the more recent games Labyrinth and Washington's War were printed in China.
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Ethan McKinney
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citizen k wrote:
It's not rocket science, a visual inspection at the beginning of the run would catch this sort of problem. Poor quality assurance and tool making seem to be the issue here.


The dies are quite expensive, so you want to get as many runs as possible out of them. Also, when your tool maker says, "Sure, we can replace it for free in 8-10 weeks. Just send that one back first," you're likely to grit your teeth and make do.
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mrbeankc wrote:
GMT sort of bounces around. They were printing their games in the US but it seems in the last two years they've switched to China. Unhappy King Charles and Halls of Montezuma which were printed a few years back were printed in the US while the more recent games Labyrinth and Washington's War were printed in China.

I think their games with mounted mapboards are printed in China. That would also explain why the Paths of Glory, HIS, Sword of Rome, etc. reprints with the upgraded components are comparatively inexpensive.
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Mark Ruggiero
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thos counters are supposed to be double size
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Mark Ruggiero
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I would pay more to keep them printing in the U.S.A need to support the local economy somehow
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Jack Smith
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Maybe I've been very lucky, I have never had a misprint from any game. I've also found that counters from GMT and MMP are always cleanly and accurately cut. I feel kind of left out now.

Anyway I would certainly tell GMT. It may be only one person messing up Quality Assurance or they need to tighten their system a bit, but they do need to be informed.
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Les Haskell
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I would guess that there was a misfeed which caused a jam and the die got bent. A bend that caused a 2mm variation would't be very noticeable when you looked at it while running. It would have happened after the run started so they would have already checked it to make sure it was cutting in the right place. Chances are they noticed the deviation and straightened the die but didn't pull all the poorly cut pieces out.

A die for this kind of cutting wouldn't be all that expensive. They would have a frame in which they arrange the blades and spacers. Bent blades could easily be replaced. The problem is that to fix it you have to stop production and that costs money.

My guess is that this is just an isolated incident. If it happens a lot it's time for GMT to find a shop that can provide consistent quality with their die-cutting.

I would contact GMT again and be very specific with the problem.
 
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M·ANTONIVS·M·F·M·N
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While you are at it, could you ask them where all the Gauls' blood went?

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