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Subject: New Characters rss

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Matthew Evans
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Can you play the base game with the characters from the expansion or are they dependent on the expansion to be playable?
 
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Paul W
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Well, there are two expansions, but the following characters from each expansion make no use of expansion mechanics:

Pegasus:
Kat

Exodus:
Gaeta
Tory
Anders
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fizzmore wrote:
Well, there are two expansions, but the following characters from each expansion make no use of expansion mechanics:

Pegasus:
Kat

Exodus:
Gaeta
Tory
Anders

On the surface, while I agree with this assessment, there are always other factors to consider.

From Pegasus...
Kat
Ironically enough, while Kat is the one character that doesn't make use of ANY Pegasus material, she can be the most difficult to use. Her character sheet can be "fiddly". Reaping good benefits from her strength while keeping her drawback from overpowering her usefulness may be a bit much for newbies of the game.

Another thing is, I feel she's a bit "nerfed" without having Pegasus locations available where 2 of them require die rolls. No treachery means while some of the other characters are saddled with completely useless cards, she's one of the few who can still make some concrete use for them via her special.

Cain
Her special straight up utilizes execution. Many people consider her overpowered anyways, so if you really want her in, you could just say she has no special ability. For her weakness, obviously, the part pertaining to Engine Room doesn't apply.

I wonder if having the flexibility of a 2/3 or 3/2 draw of green and purple may be too soon for the base game, as you'd need Tigh/Adama to kinda go that route (or something similar enough). However, the general consensus is that Kobol's more difficult than NC, so it may not shift the balance of power/balance enough to be an issue.

Ellen
Ellen can't draw Treachery if there is no treachery (brown). I responded to this in another thread where some suggested you play as Ellen even though you don't have the Peg exp by printing out a character sheet for her. She simply draws 4 cards, with the 5th one missing being brown. I don't like this one bit. Not having At Any Cost making brown positive, nor Airlock/Resistance HQ taking brown doesn't apply here, but that extra card could be used to spike skill checks, discard to move between vessels, discard due to text effects, and pass on to other characters via her special.

If she really were to be used in the base game, a suitable compensation should be found for her lack of brown draw.

Dee
Perhaps her ability is too powerful and wasn't meant for the base game? I don't know how far out they planned these exp, or if they were "on the fly".

How to find an alternative for her weakness...... you could still do it anyways, but make execution from her weakness the only one allowed from the game. If choosing a new character is too much, then she just discards all of her skill cards?

Exodus
Gaeta
There is a Qcard in Exo (Presidential Order) that allows the person who played it to name anyone as Admiral or CAG. That one card doesn't seem sufficient to compensate for Gaeta's OPG, but it may be more important then I make of it.

Same issue about his skill set as with Cain

Tory
Without the larger Qcard deck and the 10 hand limit, Tory's special + OPG along with Qcard abuse may prove to be too powerful, but I suppose you can always tone this down if playtesting turns out to be so.

Anders
Only concern I can see here is his special was probably introduced at that point in the game's life since base + exp2 can make the card draws "streaky", or it may be difficult to find 1, ro enough of the relevant cards. Add Pegasus, and it's even worse. With just the base game, it could be overpowered if he's able to find MF and SP with efficiency.
 
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Matthias Wlkp
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If you don't want/have the treachery deck and want to use Ellen, it might be good idea for her to draw the fifth card from the destiny deck. I haven't tested that, but this can be very interesting. It would simulate how she manipulated other people.
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Matthias_Wlkp wrote:
If you don't want/have the treachery deck and want to use Ellen, it might be good idea for her to draw the fifth card from the destiny deck. I haven't tested that, but this can be very interesting. It would simulate how she manipulated other people.
interesting indeed.

Seems balanced enough. Only issue would be it'd be odd to have to throw in cards from Destiny for a skill check, but have to create and shuffle a new Destiny deck halfway through that process
 
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Matthias Wlkp
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If that's a problem for you, if there's only one card left, act like there are none left. Shuffle it without examining it to the new destiny deck. But that's a really minor problem...
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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This was just about Pegasus, but I posted my ideas on how to integrate a minimum of those components (including the characters) into the Base Game on my blog here:
http://blog.tornsignpost.com/2011/01/bsg-pegasus-minimal-int...

Feel free to use any of those ideas.
 
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Chad Miller
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Matthias_Wlkp wrote:
If you don't want/have the treachery deck and want to use Ellen, it might be good idea for her to draw the fifth card from the destiny deck. I haven't tested that, but this can be very interesting. It would simulate how she manipulated other people.


What if this idea went the other way:

"If you add any cards to a skill check, you must then place your hand face-down and play a random card into the skill check. Do not look at your hand until the check is resolved"

Too harsh?
 
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Matthias Wlkp
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Too weird . I can understand loosing a random skill, but using a random skill? It would be also similar to Cally's negative, that forces her to play at least two cards to a skill check.
 
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Chad Miller
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well, the thinking was that her printed drawback makes her draw the "bad" cards, so I was trying to simulate that by forcing accidental sabotage...but after some more thought it seems like it would be really erratic in a bad way in practice
 
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SlebRittie wrote:
well, the thinking was that her printed drawback makes her draw the "bad" cards,
Just make her draw Piloting instead.
 
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Kai Pietila
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Doomclown wrote:
SlebRittie wrote:
well, the thinking was that her printed drawback makes her draw the "bad" cards,
Just make her draw Piloting instead.


This sounds a lot better than destiny. With destiny she'd have over 60% chance of drawing something useful (yellow, green, purple and blue is sometimes needed), with piloting she can only use them in some skill checks (and movement discards). What % of the skill checks have red in them?
 
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Matthias Wlkp
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I simply can't imagine Ellen playing evasive manouvers as often as Helo...

I like the idea, that Ellen can have an unknown skill card (who did she... meet this this time) - this can be very good for paranoia and suspicions.
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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Matthias_Wlkp wrote:
I simply can't imagine Ellen playing evasive manouvers as often as Helo...


The variant I linked to above has this to say about Ellen:
I wrote:
Ellen - She draws 1 Piloting skillcard instead of Treachery, and can not pilot a viper or use the abilities printed on Piloting cards. (Yes, this means she can hump pilots to enhance their firepower, but that seems thematically appropriate )
 
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Pieter
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A while ago I have been looking for a way to integrate the Pegasus characters into the base game (that was before Exodus was announced). All characters need some adaptation. You can find the results here: Battlestar Galactica Base Game Expansion.

Note that we took Cain out because thematically she is pure Pegasus material. We added Gaeta instead. Surprisingly, "our" Gaeta is a lot like the one that Exodus contains -- although I personally like the one we came up with better.
 
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Keith B
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Matthias_Wlkp wrote:
If you don't want/have the treachery deck and want to use Ellen, it might be good idea for her to draw the fifth card from the destiny deck. I haven't tested that, but this can be very interesting. It would simulate how she manipulated other people.


This would have the additional effect of giving a card counting Ellen a superior insight into what remains in the destiny deck.

The importance of this can be demonstrated by the far more extreme situation when I played Leoban in a 4 player game. He drew the human sympathizer agenda. Once infiltrated on my first turn I used his "move" only to look at the top 2 cards in the detiny deck for the whole game. I knew almost every card the destiny contributed to a skill check. Needless to say I identified the cylon rapidly and was able to engineer a check to prove his guilt to all. With the cylon revealed and the destiny deck neutral the skill ckecks were a breeze.

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bagg09tn wrote:
Matthias_Wlkp wrote:
If you don't want/have the treachery deck and want to use Ellen, it might be good idea for her to draw the fifth card from the destiny deck. I haven't tested that, but this can be very interesting. It would simulate how she manipulated other people.


This would have the additional effect of giving a card counting Ellen a superior insight into what remains in the destiny deck.

The importance of this can be demonstrated by the far more extreme situation when I played Leoban in a 4 player game. He drew the human sympathizer agenda. Once infiltrated on my first turn I used his "move" only to look at the top 2 cards in the detiny deck for the whole game. I knew almost every card the destiny contributed to a skill check. Needless to say I identified the cylon rapidly and was able to engineer a check to prove his guilt to all. With the cylon revealed and the destiny deck neutral the skill ckecks were a breeze.

Any more juicy details? I'm skeptical as how effective this would work out in practice. Ho many players were there?

In a 4p game, you get to use it one out of every 4 turns. The crisis deck can throw you on average.... 3 cards with mandatory skill checks out of every 5 to 7 of them? At best, for every 3 pairs of skill cards that gets flushed from Destiny, you only get to use Leoben's special 2 times, which doesn't seem to be enough info to establish such skill card patterns.
 
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Keith B
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ackmondual wrote:
Any more juicy details? I'm skeptical as how effective this would work out in practice. How many players were there?

In a 4p game, you get to use it one out of every 4 turns. The crisis deck can throw you on average.... 3 cards with mandatory skill checks out of every 5 to 7 of them? At best, for every 3 pairs of skill cards that gets flushed from Destiny, you only get to use Leoben's special 2 times, which doesn't seem to be enough info to establish such skill card patterns.


If I've understood your numbers correctly 1 in 3 skill checks would be taken not the knowing the destiny cards.

I didn't count the checks but it felt like less common than that. We did tend to opt to take the hit rather than the the check on the optional ones, and because the cylon was revealed early we had no briggings.

In addition the cylon did not sit on Caprica all of the time (reducing it to 3 crisis draws a round). Also the cylon tended to go for fleet cards (no skill checks) when they were drawing and had the choice. We might just have got lucky on the draw and my percepttion might have been skewed.

My strategy when working the destiny deck was to remove the high cards and replace them with 2 low cards of different colours. This meant the contribution of deck was neligible (with the positive side effect of increasing the power of my hand). I also used this as an opportunity to remove trechery cards, which I threw into tanked skill checks
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