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Subject: A World at War or World in Flames? rss

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Bob Soule
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Which one is better? A World at War or World in Flames? I want one of them, but I'm not sold yet on either one.
 
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Nate Sandall
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What about Europe Engulfed plus the upcoming linkable Asia/Pacific version?
 
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Jim Wickson
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meepleThis is a tough choice and one that depends on what you want from a strategic level WWII game covering both theaters.
WiF has the edge over AWAW if you desire a more intuitive rulebook. This is especially true of the older 5th edition. In recent years though, the basic WiF system has been tweeked quite a bit with changes, errata, and expansion after expansion causing it to become less newby-friendly.
However WiF in its so-called "final edition" takes up a LOT of space and even playing the classic version will consume many days of real time. WiF is for the player who wants to micro-manage WWII especially with all the expansions included. IMHO, WiF FE is a step backwards, though, in terms of playability.
Unlike WiF, it is quite feasible to finish at least most of the AWAW scenarios within one weekend. However, AWAW is frightfully expensive and the learning curve as per its rulebook is quite steep. The AWAW rules are both more abstract and more complex. An advantage AWAW has over WiF is a wider choice of scenarios. While I find WiF FE inferior to the old WiF5 in terms of elegance, AWAW does a superior job at updating the old A3R/ERS system with better integration of the Europe and Pacific theaters.
 
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Michael Von Ahnen
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I can not comment on "A World at War" but I have had considerable experience with "World in Flames". I like WIF, but I tend to go for the Classic version, versus the Deluxe.

Here is the key points I like about WIF:

1. Unpredictable turn end. The end of a turn depends on a die roll. The more phases that happen, the more likely the turn will end. Also, a side can influence the end of the turn by doing a pass option.

2. Nicely integrated Land/Air/Sea system. Better than any other I have seen.

3. Resources and production can be effected directly by board actions. Many games this is overly abstracted, in WIF, if you can ship your resources to your factories, you can't build your tanks.

4. At least in the basic game, less important areas can be handled abstractly, but without changing the game substantially.

5. The politcal system is very effective, without too much overhead.

Again, I am a fan of the Classic version instead of the Deluxe. The Deluxe adds a TON of counters and the rules to go with them. I would consider the Classic version complex, the Deluxe twice again. But this depends on your particular likes. I personally think that the game is complex and complete enough. But here are some of the added features of the Deluxe:

1. The abstract land boxes are replaced with maps. Africa, Asia, and America. There may be more, these are the ones I know about.

2. Aircraft types are no longer abstract, you get Spitfires, ME-109's, Mustangs, C-47's etc. You add the new types based on their historic availability. To get the old ones out of the mix (you select your replacements randomly), you have to scrap them, which might include some units on the board. Each aircraft type has its own range, etc. As you can see a major change. Plus now their ar pilots and carrier aircraft.

3. Additional ships for Cruisers.

4. Leaders

5. Mech units.

I would compare the difference between WIF Classic and WIF Deluxe like the difference between Squad Leader and Advanced Squad Leader. In the classic version, many things are abstracted to a point where as in the Deluxe, there is less abstraction and more complexity.

Hope this helps.
 
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Alistair Gibson
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I would go for AWAW if you can afford it, mostly for the differences already stated by General Snafu, I have read the rules to World in flames and I do prefer the AWAW rules even if it is harder to get into, but if you start with the basic scenarios and take it slow, you can get up to speed, also I think the production quality is better for AWAW, hence the higher price. But the price is the reason I think WIF has a bigger following. However you can get deluxe WIF and leave out the extra stuff and just play classic. Before you decide I would take a look at the rules of both, of which both can be found online, don’t worry about errata and so on just read through the basic rules for both and see which appeals to you the most. AWAW official site is ULTRA and WIF is ADG. I admit I’m biased I have always liked TR and ATR, both of these can be picked up cheap, so you could but WIF but pick up TR cheap (you can play the European theatre with third Reich in 10 hours once you know the rules).
 
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David Brown
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I wouldn't get either!

I own and played WIF (can't remember which edition) life is just to short for games like this. To be honest I found the rules hard but OK once I started pushing it around and it does have a very good feel about it. However I only played the European scenerio and that was big/long enough. However one of my gaming buddies is devoted to this game and he regulaly plays it. It's set up permantly for the duration, which takes several months. If you have the space and time great (I wish I had)

AWAW 190+ pages of rules........are you mad.

I own several stragetic WWII games (only WIF cover both theatres however)so far (IMO) Europe Engulfed is the best, although Totaler Krieg is a close second). EE is playable & works well and I don't have to devote a major portion of my life reading, re-reading (repeat several time) the rules.
 
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Alistair Gibson
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I do think that thirts has a good point but that 190 page rule book is only that big due to repetition of certain rules to make them easier to look up, AWAW dosen't need that much space if you just play the one theater, but EE is meant to be easier but if you have your heart set on a monster game don't let the EE enthusiasts put you off I have played it and yes it is a good enjoyable game but it isn't as satisifing as a big monster, but it does have it's merits so if your looking for something more complex then axis and allies but still want more game than sim then go for EE, if you want a big SIM even if it takes from weeks to months to play then stick with one of the first two. Like I said the rules are availble online for AWAW and WIF (don't know about EE) I would check them out.

Note: I am in no way tring to insault the EE crowd or trying to imply it's a bad game, but after having played it I would still rather AWAW or WIF, although I'd never turn down a game of EE (or axis and allies for that matter)
 
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E Corcoran
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WiF has much nicer counters. Nice color choices, nice pictures for ships and planes, nice minor country units.
 
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robin goblin
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Why don't we add Totaler Krieg to the mix as well, as one person has mentioned it...it's been a long time since I've had the opportunity to play a wwII strategic game covering the whole war and wonder whether Totaler Krieg might not be the 'compromise' choice: big enough and long enough to grab people who want a big, long wargame, but perhaps not as long and complex as AWAW or WIF?

Robin
 
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Bob Soule
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Re: A World at War or World in Flames or Totaler Krieg or Europe Engulfed?
Actually, I have considered TK for purchase. I just checked out the DG site. TK is still on their site for purchase for $80 so I guess they're still producing it. There's a link to a TK site that was last updated Jan 20, 2005 but all of the links are broken. It's says on that page that DG is working on a TK2. Any word on that? Would hate to buy TK and then have TK2 come out a month later. cry

To be honest, with all of the WiF interations, it kinda scares me. Especially buying it used on eBay. I'd have to be certain that the seller knows which version they're selling. I'd also have to know which version to buy. I don't know but it sounds that you could talk to 5 different WiF players and get 5 different answers about which iteration is best. At least with AWAW there's only one version and you know what you're getting. Also, with WiF, supposedly Matrix Games is working on a computer version. It will probably release about the same time as Empires in Arms, i.e., never.

I've seen EE but I'm looking for something a little more in depth I think, but I"m willing to discuss it.

So, let's throw out a couple more games, TK and EE and hear it for which WWII strategic level game I should purchase. Thanks!

Bob
 
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Bob Soule
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Just thought I'd update everybody. I got WiF Final Edition Classic on eBay for $25, which I think is a good price for an $80 game. I downloaded the rules and I've been looking at them in conjuction with the CB gamebox. I'll probably still buy AWAW eventually, but I like that WiF ties in with Days of Decision, which I also have, so that a Grand Campaign can be waged both politically and militarily. We'll see what happens. Thanks for all of your input.

Sigerson
 
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