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Subject: I ADORE London... are other Wallace games right for me? rss

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Pete Lane
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I always kind of saw Wallace games as fiddly and almost wargame like... But I was taught London in Jan and immediately bought it (and I'm not one who buys willy nilly)!. Then someone who I know that has very dis-similar tastes to me was raving about Brass. I wasn't sure if that was a reflection of the quality of the game, or if I should take it to mean I should avoid it. Well, now it's appeared on a local math trade and I want to know if I should bother trying for it?

London was easy to learn, teach, has fun choices, and has replayability with my group...

We typically love games like that (Kingsburg, Power Grid, Goa, El Grande), but we don't shy away from more complex games like Le Havre... they just don't get to the table as often.

What say you? Run and hide, or give it a try!
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Don Brandt
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You should definitely give Brass a try. I wouldn't buy it before you try it though. It is a more complex rules set to grasp in the beginning and the amount of time it takes to play is longer. I would also keep my eye out for other Wallace games as he makes quite a few good ones. My group ended up really liking Tinners' Trail. There is a lot of game here in an hour or so.
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Danny Webb
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I think Tinners' Trail and Steel Driver would both be a better next Wallace design. They are both of similar weight to London but are completely different games (from London and from each other). Of in-print games, the next step up would likely include Automobile. Brass, Liberte, Age of Industry, and Struggle of Empires are considerably more complex than London (which we also really love, by the way).
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Henry Williams
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I second both of these games. Tinner's Trail, in particular, is simple to grasp and plays quickly. Brass, on the other hand, is harder to wrap your brain around, but it's a thing of beauty after a play or two.

Rise of Empires is very interesting, too, but it is very directly confrontational.
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Bill Herbst
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Brass is a wonderful game and I highly recommend it but those who have responded already are correct in noting that it is a bit more fiddly rules-wise than some of the others mentioned. I would put it on about the same level of complexity as Le Havre.
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Clement Tey
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Age of Industry is more streamlined and thus better IMHO. Brass has lots of fiddly rules.
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Jeff Hinrickson
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I think Automobile is a good Wallace game. The use of Loss markers is very similart to the Poverty markers in London. Although Automobile is all board game with no cards, I see a few combinations of his previous games in this one.

Steam - with the character selection
London - with the loss/poverty markers
Steel Driver - purchase of factories

Although I have not yet played the game I have read through the rules several times and this sounds like a solid Wallace game and cannot wait to give a try.

I know exactly what you mean by the fiddlyness of Wallace games which have many little rules you need to keep track of. Automobile doesn't really sound like one of those types of games (I'm talking about you Brass) based on just reading the rules.
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Kevin Garnica
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I say play any Martin Wallace game before you buy it. He's just...*sighs* "one of those designers" that is unmistakably HIM, if you know what I mean. As such, I've only liked two games of his, and they are London and Last Train to Wensleydale (or First Train to Nurenburg or whatever...)

Generally, though, I suspect he's one of those love 'em or hate 'em kind of people who designs like games.

Brass, however, is definitely more complex than London. London is one of his more simple games; his own take on a card drafting mechanic, which is not too common for him.

Hope this helps.
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Jerry Wilkinson
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Have you tried any of his train themed games? (Railways of the World, Railroad Tycoon, Steam, or Age of Steam)
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Joe Wasserman
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I don't think he would like that.
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I tend to like Martin Wallace's designs, but actually didn't like London! Although Age of Industry might be a good one to try. And his upcoming 2011 game, Discworld: Ankh-Morpork. I was going to recommend San Juan, but I see that you already have it! But I'd give other of his games a try, especially since at the highest level they have somewhat similar formulas.
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Geeky McGeekface
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tolendante wrote:
I think Tinners' Trail and Steel Driver would both be a better next Wallace design. They are both of similar weight to London but are completely different games (from London and from each other). Of in-print games, the next step up would likely include Automobile. Brass, Liberte, Age of Industry, and Struggle of Empires are considerably more complex than London (which we also really love, by the way).

tolendante's thoughts are very close to mine. Tinners' Trail is definitely the best match for London. Brass is a great game, but it's hard to learn and teach (the rules are laid out in an unusual style and there's lots of little exceptions) and quite hard to play well (the core of the game is kind of unintuitive). You could try it out now, but your group might be better off working your way up to it.

In addition to the Wallace designs that tolendante mentions, Toledo is a solid, quick playing middleweight game. Mordred is also quite light--a dicefest, actually, but a well designed one. And Tempus got miscast as a "Civ-lite" game, but I think it's actually quite good. It's similar in weight to London, maybe a bit heavier.
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Steve Duff
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Tinners Trail definitely. Automobile will probably work fine for you too.

Brass is certainly much heavier, I'd try the others first.
 
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Marco Wong
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Larry Levy wrote:
tolendante wrote:
I think Tinners' Trail and Steel Driver would both be a better next Wallace design. They are both of similar weight to London but are completely different games (from London and from each other). Of in-print games, the next step up would likely include Automobile. Brass, Liberte, Age of Industry, and Struggle of Empires are considerably more complex than London (which we also really love, by the way).

tolendante's thoughts are very close to mine. Tinners' Trail is definitely the best match for London. Brass is a great game, but it's hard to learn and teach (the rules are laid out in an unusual style and there's lots of little exceptions) and quite hard to play well (the core of the game is kind of unintuitive). You could try it out now, but your group might be better off working your way up to it.

In addition to the Wallace designs that tolendante mentions, Toledo is a solid, quick playing middleweight game. Mordred is also quite light--a dicefest, actually, but a well designed one. And Tempus got miscast as a "Civ-lite" game, but I think it's actually quite good. It's similar in weight to London, maybe a bit heavier.

Second this opinion. But why everone forget Liberte especially with the new Valley games reprint?
It is a game about French revolution period and uses cards to place control tokens on board, somewhat similar to an area control game. It's very easy to learn but with surprising depth.
BTW, get the new version rather than the Warfrog one as the old version has some colouring issues making you difficult to play.

edited for the 'death'
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Jerry Wilkinson
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Lubi123 wrote:
...It's very easy to learn but with surprising death...


Marco, I think you mean "depth".

Jerry
 
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