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Subject: A lot of questions about strategy and rules... rss

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Tony Hamen
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-What happens if you import/export to yourself?
We played you remove both markers and that is it.

-The game comes with little chits with circles of the player colors, and also one stock packet with no value printed on it. Are these extra pieces?

-At the beginning of the game all of the companies start with 0 points, does this mean their stock multiplier is 0? We played a two player game and the neutral company had a 0 stock price when companies were buying stock due to both of us playing the 0 tile.
We played that companies have an intrinsic value of at least 1. Is this correct?

-To use the 7th bid marker you use a collected economic receipt that you are holding from previous rounds that you didn't bid on turn order with right? Also, regarding turn order, why would you ever bid on anyone but the companies you are managing?

-Why would you ever sell stocks (at least in a two player game, I can see why you would in a 4 player as to have enough capital to buy stocks in a better company)

-I'm still a bit confused about voting, especially in a two player game. I'd like someone to spell it out to me like I'm a child, but here is my conclusion:
You vote two times. You vote whether the company will pay out dividends, and you vote who will become the board member of a company next round. For dividends you vote to see whether it will: 1. pay out, then 2. highest multiplier, 3. Down to 1. Votes are cast simultaneously(?) with the votes consisting of shares owned by players, and shares owned by corporations added together.
Voting for the next board member is the part I don't really understand. When/who nominates potential nominees? And, the person with the most shares(owned by them AND their corporation) HAS to run? Does this mean they have to vote for themselves, or else why would that statement matter? Also, why would the players ever vote for the person with the most shares if they collectively have more? I just don't understand this portion! cry

That said, I think this game is really clever and I can't wait to try it with 4 players, because with 2 players it seemed like a lot of the game didn't make sense (voting, etc.)

 
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D E
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gentlegiantglass wrote:
-What happens if you import/export to yourself?
We played you remove both markers and that is it.

I think it should be treated as a regular sale - shouldn't go through if it doesn't have enough money, and should result in a fine if the company doesn't have the material.
 
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I'm pretty sure the player who owns the most shares personally of the company has to run, and it's illegal to sell out completely if you are the only player-owner. So there will always be a player with at least 1 share. So in order to make sure there is always a President of each company, the player who owns the most shares MUST run. Those rules seem to intersect properly to cause that effect.

As for the strategy question, who knows? I'm sure there will be some instance that you would want to sell shares, so it's allowed. Also, it doesn't make sense to prohibit it from the 2-player game even if it is a poor strategic decision.
 
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Patrick Korner
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Only one play but I'll try and answer:

gentlegiantglass wrote:
-What happens if you import/export to yourself?
We played you remove both markers and that is it.


I believe it's a 'regular' sale and is treated as such - i.e. just remove both markers unless you don't have enough $$, in which case you get penalized as per usual.

gentlegiantglass wrote:
-The game comes with little chits with circles of the player colors, and also one stock packet with no value printed on it. Are these extra pieces?


I'd assumed the little chits were part of the 2-player rules or something, we didn't use them as we played 4p. I think the no-value stock packet is extra.

gentlegiantglass wrote:
-At the beginning of the game all of the companies start with 0 points, does this mean their stock multiplier is 0? We played a two player game and the neutral company had a 0 stock price when companies were buying stock due to both of us playing the 0 tile.
We played that companies have an intrinsic value of at least 1. Is this correct?


We also ran into this and decided that a value of 0 made no sense - so we also set each share value at 1 to start. I'd be interested in hearing if this is in fact incorrect.

gentlegiantglass wrote:
-To use the 7th bid marker you use a collected economic receipt that you are holding from previous rounds that you didn't bid on turn order with right? Also, regarding turn order, why would you ever bid on anyone but the companies you are managing?


Yes, that is correct. We call them 'phone a friends'. As for why you may wish to bid on another company - timing effects. You might want to buy stock first, which means having your company go last, hence supporting/voting for another company might make sense. Or you might add a vote in to force a tie and thus keep another player from getting the turn order advantage they were seeking.

gentlegiantglass wrote:
-Why would you ever sell stocks (at least in a two player game, I can see why you would in a 4 player as to have enough capital to buy stocks in a better company)


We sold stock quite a bit, esp. earlier in the game as a way of getting cash to buy into other companies with. Can't comment on 2p as I've not played that way.

gentlegiantglass wrote:
-I'm still a bit confused about voting, especially in a two player game. I'd like someone to spell it out to me like I'm a child, but here is my conclusion:
You vote two times. You vote whether the company will pay out dividends, and you vote who will become the board member of a company next round. For dividends you vote to see whether it will: 1. pay out, then 2. highest multiplier, 3. Down to 1. Votes are cast simultaneously(?) with the votes consisting of shares owned by players, and shares owned by corporations added together.
Voting for the next board member is the part I don't really understand. When/who nominates potential nominees? And, the person with the most shares(owned by them AND their corporation) HAS to run? Does this mean they have to vote for themselves, or else why would that statement matter? Also, why would the players ever vote for the person with the most shares if they collectively have more? I just don't understand this portion! cry


Dividend voting:
- Any shareholder may make a payout proposition. Negotiation is allowed.
- Eventually, X propositions will go to a vote. Vote on the highest dividend payout proposition first. If it passes, voting is over. If it fails, move on to the next-lower one, etc.

Board voting:
- Anyone may put their name forward to become the company president. Anyone may be nominated, but being nominated doesn't force you to run.
- The shareholder with the single largest number of shares (which may also be the president of company Y that happens to hold the most shares in company X) must run.
- Any player may vote for any other player, provided that player has offered to run. So while the majority owner MUST run, he doesn't have to vote for himself.
- Once N players have been nominated (and negotiated), the election is held. We played that voting proceeds in turn order, I can't recall if that's actually correct. The other way would be secret ballot but the game doesn't provide you with the bits for that...
- In the event of a tie, the single largest share packet breaks the tie. So if a 10 and 3 vote one way and a 9 and a 4 vote the other, then the person the 10 block voted for wins.

As to why you might want to vote for someone other than yourself, well, that's very game-dependent. In my last game, I voted to keep Blue's incumbent in office even though I had enough votes to take Blue over myself. Why? Because Blue and Red (me) had an agreement whereby I'd keep her in her position in exchange for her supporting me when Red's turn came, so as to keep Yellow from taking it over. But with only one play in, I'm sure there are far more complicated and adventurous things that might come up!

gentlegiantglass wrote:
That said, I think this game is really clever and I can't wait to try it with 4 players, because with 2 players it seemed like a lot of the game didn't make sense (voting, etc.)


The game is indeed quite interesting, with lots of potential for vicious plays that leave lasting marks. I look forward to my next play.

pk
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Andrzej Kurek
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I can authorize all Patrick`s explanations including the tactical part.

Extra no-value stock packet token is to be used in case you lose some.
(Normally people care about their share packets but in case of game tokens we are not so restrictive )

The minimum price of share is always 1 (not 0). The assumption of the game is "there is nothing for free". In this part the game is "worse" than real life. There is very a fine mechanism included in this game which could be used for changing/correcting MOE:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/38863/hab-gut

Probably it could work well enough only in 4p game. Anyway, I think it`s mechanically possible to add a mechanism moving the game in this direction without any disturbances for the main engine and ballance. It could be even improving the game. I have to consider it.

'phone a friend' - our team call it the same way
 
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Andrzej Kurek
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PatK wrote:
lots of potential for vicious plays that leave lasting marks


lol
 
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Tony Hamen
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I played the game four player last night and everything made sense. The two player game just really confused me. This is a hard game to wrap your head around though. I got completely crushed, and it's going to take me a bunch more plays to get a feel for winning strategies. I ended up extorting the crap out of one company and selling my shares to dump it on someone else, and bought shares in the company of the person I was dumping mine on. He ended up doing really well with it and won the game. I just couldn't wrap my head around buying stocks of companies that were moving past stock price thresholds, and when or what stocks to sell in order to buy different ones.
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