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Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of Ashardalon Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Pit confusion rss

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Fred Hartig
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Hello!

The rules for the pit hazard are very unclear.

According to the rules, a hazard is activated in the Villain phase of the controlling player, just like a monster or a trap.

Now, lets say player 3 draws the pit hazard at the start of his Villain phase.
He places the pit marker anywhere on his tile.
Later in the same Villain phase of this turn, after activating a few monsters, he activates the pit card.
The pit attacks him, but misses; so no damage and no fall into the pit. Lucky guy.

A few turns later, player 3 has left the pit tile.
Now, player 2 takes his turn and moves onto the pit tile.
According to the rules, the hazard DOES NOT ACTIVATE, as player 2 is not the controlling player.
Player 2 can therefore end his turn on the pit tile w/o any harm.
Player 3 now takes his turn and moves somewhere else.
During his Villain phase he activates the pit hazard card.
There is written "Attack all players on the active players tile".

Hmm, player 3 is the active player, but the pit is not on his tile.
Does the pit now attacks player 2, even if this contradicts the text on the card?

To make things worse, the text on the pit marker seems to imply that you automatically fall into the pit when moving onto the tile (outside of the activating order).

Confused...
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Tristan Hall
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The pit only activates/attacks once it is drawn. From then on, any player ending their turn on that tile falls in automatically, as shown on the pit marker. You keep the card with you to show what happens whilst someone is in the pit.
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Fred Hartig
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If you are right, then a hero who automatically falls into the pit by ending his hero phase on the tile would suffer 2 damage, correct?
 
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Tristan Hall
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Fred22 wrote:
If you are right, then a hero who automatically falls into the pit by ending his hero phase on the tile would suffer 2 damage, correct?


Correct, best to avoid that tile altogether if you can.
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Alan Stewart
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Do heroes fall in automatically if they are using the flying carpet? Or do the heroes have to dismount everytime they use it to fly to a new tile?
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Tristan Hall
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EverywhereGames wrote:
Do heroes fall in automatically if they are using the flying carpet? Or do the heroes have to dismount everytime they use it to fly to a new tile?


Hah, great question! I'd definitely let them stay on the carpet if they finish on that tile but since it's not covered you'd have to decide for yourself. Do they hang on in there? Or do they all dismount and throw themselves straight into the pit??
 
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Christian
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I think the Pit Marker is supposed to be a reminder but is erronous (if not, a hero finally escaping the Pit would fall again immediately), it totally contradicts what the card says.
Fred, I think you got it right (Hazards are supposed to ba activated like monsters), but the part that says "Attack all Heroes on the active Hero's tile" should read "... on the Pit Marker Tile".
So a Hero quickly passing on the Pit Tile do not trigger the pit, but a hero standing will (during the Hero Phase of the controller of the Pit card) and will sustain the "attack" of the Pit...
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Dave M
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My understanding was that hazards are different than traps in the way their encounter cards are handled.

The effects of hazard encounter cards are executed one-time as soon as they are drawn like any other encounter card. After which the hazard encounter card is discarded.

Hazard encounter cards also have a hazard token. When this token is placed on the hero's tile it will add a hazard effect to that tile as described by the text on the token. The effects of hazard tokens are persistent through all heroes turns and not specific to any one hero's villain phase.

If you examine the text on all of the hazard tokens, you will find the instructions are usually when any hero enters that tile or starts/ends on that tile and other similar conditions that are not specific to any one heroes villain phase.
 
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Chris B
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are monsters that move on that tile effected as well?
 
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Christian
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Rules explicitely say that Hazards behave like Traps regarding activation (put in front of the player, activate durig Villain phase)...
Well... another unclear card/effect/rule...

Chris: effects mentions "Hero" and not "monsters", so monsters know the place well (they live here after all) and can avoid traps, hazards, encounters... lucky b*!
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Zwerchfell wrote:
are monsters that move on that tile effected as well?
According to the rules they're not. It's something that is bothering me slightly, though.

I think it would be cool if you could trick monsters into walking into hazards.
 
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Dave M
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Kris wrote:
Rules explicitely say that Hazards behave like Traps regarding activation (put in front of the player, activate durig Villain phase)...
Well... another unclear card/effect/rule...


Even though this is printed in the rules regarding hazards, everything about the hazard encounter cards and respective hazard tokens point towards the rules book being wrong or at the very least misprinted.

Hazard: Cave In
- Place the cave in marker on the active hero's tile. If that tile already has a marker etc..
- Attack each hero on the active hero's tile.[+9][2/miss:1 damage]
- Discard this card.

First, place the marker on your tile as you would a trap.
Second, attack each hero on the active hero's tile. This part is odd since it is inconsistent with traps which always state the tile with the trap marker on it. If the hazard card is meant to be placed with the rest of the hero's monster/trap cards and played in order, it is quite possible that the hero may be on a different tile than the cave in marker, which means the cave in damage has somehow chased the hero 1 or more tiles away.
The marker itself states that anyone who starts on the tokens tile is slowed (2 speed). This effect is completely independent of the card itself regardless of where it stands in the heroes monster/trap card order.
In bold it states to discard this card. Similar to the way attack-event encounters are handled. Strangely this hazard is the only one that actually states to discard it.

Hazard: Volcanic Vapors
- Place the volcanic marker on the active hero's tile. If that tile already has a marker etc..
- Blank space where the instructions are usually placed.
- A hero that moves onto this tile or starts their turn there is poisoned.

This one is even stranger. First you place the marker on the active hero's tile as you would a trap. Then, no other instructions in regular font. At the bottom, bold text which simply repeats the instructions written on the token.
If a hero were to put this card with the rest of his monsters/traps it would do absolutely nothing. There is no villain phase instruction on the card itself. Since the token effects are written on the actual token, there is no reason to put this card with the hero's monsters/traps. Once the token is placed, this card has no purpose.

Hazard: Pit
- Place the Pit marker on the active hero's tile. If that tile already has a marker etc..
-Attack each hero on the active hero's tile.[+10][2 place hero on the card]
- If a hero is on this card at the start of their villian phase, roll a die. 10+ place hero on the pit tile. Otherwise hero skips hero phase.

The most ambiguous hazard of the 3.
First it states to place the marker on the active hero's tile, so far so good. Then, you attack each hero on the active hero's tile. This line suffers from the same problem as the cave in. If the hero has been moved from the tile with the pit token, before the hazard card is played in that hero's monster/trap card order, the pit hazard has basically followed the hero away from the actual pit to attack him. Once again this makes no sense whatsoever. Hero's who are hit by the attack would mysteriously fall into a pit that may in fact be 1 or more tiles away. The worst part about the rules for hazard cards and playing this card RAW is that this mysterious invisible pit monster would strike every villain phase of that hero.

Obviously, these hazards are plagued with rules issues. You could house rule all of these active hero tile attacks individually, while keeping the hazard cards in your monster/trap pile even though they dont actually do anything once the hazard marker is placed,
or
We can assume the misprint is within the rules book itself. If the hazard cards are played one time as soon as they are drawn like every other encounter card then discarded, all of the confusion of these hazard cards disappear.
The effects of each hazard marker are completely independent of the actual cards. The attacks on 2 of the hazard cards imply the attack should take place when the card is drawn (active hero's tile). Once the marker is placed, and the attack happens, there is no reason to hold these cards in your monster/trap order.
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Christian
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Quite a detailed analysis!
I agree on all points...
But the fact that a card contradict a rule explicitely doesn't bother me. For example Cave in and Volcanic vapors : we know in these cases that the card trumps the rulebook, it's ok, though it should be clearer (the first time I had to figure it out was annoying).
It's more problematic when the card contradicts the card in a way that doesn't work as written (Cave pit).

House ruling all around...
 
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Erich Cranor
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Quote:
The worst part about the rules for hazard cards and playing this card RAW is that this mysterious invisible pit monster would strike every villain phase of that hero.


I disagree. The worst part about the pit is that you can explore on your first turn, draw a black arrow, draw a pit, land in the pit. Then if you manage to roll under 10 five or six times (which isn't extremely unlikely)--you can have a whole game session go by where your hero never gets to do anything. Fun!

(I was trying it at Gamestorm to see if I needed to buy it--that experience certainly answered my question.)
 
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M Harker

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pinbot wrote:
Quote:
The worst part about the rules for hazard cards and playing this card RAW is that this mysterious invisible pit monster would strike every villain phase of that hero.


I disagree. The worst part about the pit is that you can explore on your first turn, draw a black arrow, draw a pit, land in the pit. Then if you manage to roll under 10 five or six times (which isn't extremely unlikely)--you can have a whole game session go by where your hero never gets to do anything. Fun!

(I was trying it at Gamestorm to see if I needed to buy it--that experience certainly answered my question.)



Heh, that is really unfortunate.
I was wondering about a different situation...
If I had quite a few Monsters on the board
when my heroes fell in, wouldn't it be possible for the Monsters
to line up around the pit so that the Heroes could never get
out? Or would you place the heroes in the next open square?
Can the Monsters attack the Heroes while they're in the pit?
Or, as the FAQ seems to imply, are they "off the board"?
 
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Alejandro Rascon
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I treat it like they are off the board, since it specifies "plce the hero on this card" when they fall.
As to where to put them when they comeback if there are monsters all around, i would place them in the nearest free square, though it would be fairly unlucky to land in that situation
 
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Christian
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The Pit marker only indicates the tile in which there is the pit, it is not the pit itself, so when your hero gets out of it, you can place him/her on any square on this tile: if the marker is in the way move it!

BTW, every trap/hazard marker works this way!
 
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M Harker

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Kris wrote:
The Pit marker only indicates the tile in which there is the pit, it is not the pit itself, so when your hero gets out of it, you can place him/her on any square on this tile: if the marker is in the way move it!

BTW, every trap/hazard marker works this way!



But the FAQ states that if you escape the Pit, you place your Hero
on any square adjacent to the Pit Marker.

The Pit Marker also states that a Hero in the Pit "cannot move". It doesn't say they can't attack.

I guess until we get an "official" ruling, players have to decide whether the rules are wrong
(in treating the Pit Card like a normal trap card) or just
accept that an invisible pit monster is roaming around
(which also seems wrong).

If the rules are wrong, is the Pit Hazard Card discarded once all
Heroes are off the card? After which, any Hero landing on the tile with
the Pit Hazard Marker falls in and must escape? Is the FAQ only referring to times when the Card is in play?
I think it's kind of funny that they specifically addressed this card
in the FAQ and it's still this confusing.
 
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Christian
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Heroes in the pit skips their whole hero phase, not only their movement (see card text).

You're right for the mention of adjacency in the faq of the rules! I think I'm gonna conveniently forget it, because it's so much simpler that way!
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M Harker

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This card's giving me a headache!

I think we just need to know for sure,
do we keep the card out forever, or discard it
after one use? Is the Pit permanent, or does it
go away?
I believe it's meant to stay in one spot, no
invisible pit monster. Maybe instead of attacking
the "active hero" it should just attack any Hero
on the tile with the pit marker.
 
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Christian
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It stays : cards that are discarded says so.

Look psykoduck calm down

I play it like you suggest, and it works: attacks (when triggered) the heroes on the tile with the marker, and... no, and nothing more, it works, and feels right too: if a hero don't stop, the pit doesn't trigger, if a hero stays on the tile he can fall down and be hurt. You know like there is a... thing... I don't know the word... like you think it's the floor but in fact it opens and aaaaaaah!

I suppose it was intended this way.

Okay?
 
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M Harker

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Kris wrote:
It stays : cards that are discarded says so.

Look psykoduck calm down

I play it like you suggest, and it works: attacks (when triggered) the heroes on the tile with the marker, and... no, and nothing more, it works, and feels right too: if a hero don't stop, the pit doesn't trigger, if a hero stays on the tile he can fall down and be hurt. You know like there is a... thing... I don't know the word... like you think it's the floor but in fact it opens and aaaaaaah!

I suppose it was intended this way.

Okay?



Like a trap door.. and somewhere deep in the mountain, Ashardalon
is sitting at his desk and pushing a button. Over and over again..
You fall down his pit, get mildly injured, try to climb out. Or maybe
they moved his desk that day and you weren't in the right spot, so it missed.

Or maybe it's supposed to operate similar to the Cave In
Hazard. The card for that is discarded after the initial attack, but the marker
remains in play. If they had done that with all of the
Hazards there would have been some consistency and made them feel
more unique from Traps.
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Christian
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No no, don't discard, play it as I said, it works, really!
I don't think Ashardalon is monitoring and triggering it, I think it's triggered by the weight of the heroes. Monsters know where to walk
 
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Keith Collins
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I think I need to just discard this encounter from my game box...
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N S.
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psykoduck wrote:

I believe it's meant to stay in one spot, no
invisible pit monster. Maybe instead of attacking
the "active hero" it should just attack any Hero
on the tile with the pit marker.


Yeah, I would agree, but it sure would be nice to have an official ruling on such a basic question.

I think this interpretation works best. Quoting the rulebook on hazards (p.12): "When you take your Villain Phase, the Hazard activates like a Monster...a Hazard takes the actions listed on its card. A Hazard might attack all the Heroes on its tile, or it might attack the Hero closest to it." (My emphasis).

I believe the Pit is one of the cases the rulebook writers had in mind when they wrote "A Hazard might attack all the Heroes on its tile". The actual Encounter Card for the Pit would seem to contradict this, since it says "Attack each Hero on the active Hero's tile." I think the card is wrong. Change the card's wording to "Attack each Hero on the Hazard Pit's tile" and everything falls into place and all of this nonsense about roving pit monsters is dispelled.

Furthermore, the text on the Hazard Pit marker should just be ignored. I can see how the game designers were going for a concise reminder that sums up what the hazard does, but it is misleading. It seems to imply that any Hero who ends (or even passes through?) the Hazard's tile automatically falls into the pit. I really don't think this is what they meant, given the text on the card and the explanation in the rulebook for how Hazards work.

Finally, I don't know what the game designers were thinking when they decided the hazard markers should look like white boxes with text, instead of nicely illustrated pits, lava flows, falling boulders, etc. Can you imagine how much cooler the game would look?
 
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