Brian M
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Just a little curious from just reading the rules. If I'm reading this right, assuming the game has been a split game, each side will have about 300 CT at the final battle, so the Avatar will get +600 wounds?!

Meanwhile, the heroes get +75 each. Also a lot.

How long does it take to hack through all that? At a quick glance, I was estimating gold weapons doing maybe 12-18 damage per attack or so. After armor, maybe an optimistic average of 10 points per attack? Assume half the heroes can manage to battle each turn for a 10 turn fight? Except some heroes will likely die partway though and reduce that.

Just curious as to how actual vs. Avatar fights run. Seems like what should be the exciting finale could turn in a grind. Opinions on how it really plays?
 
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StormKnight wrote:
Just a little curious from just reading the rules. If I'm reading this right, assuming the game has been a split game, each side will have about 300 CT at the final battle, so the Avatar will get +600 wounds?!

Meanwhile, the heroes get +75 each. Also a lot.

How long does it take to hack through all that? At a quick glance, I was estimating gold weapons doing maybe 12-18 damage per attack or so. After armor, maybe an optimistic average of 10 points per attack? Assume half the heroes can manage to battle each turn for a 10 turn fight? Except some heroes will likely die partway though and reduce that.

Just curious as to how actual vs. Avatar fights run. Seems like what should be the exciting finale could turn in a grind. Opinions on how it really plays?

Where are you getting +600 and +75 from?
This idea is completely wrong. But I am curious how you came up with this.
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Brian M
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Quote:
This idea is completely wrong.

I'm glad to hear this if so

I was reading this near midnight last night, so maybe I wasn't fully awake and processing...

I thought that when a final battle occurred, the avatar gets +2 health per CT accumulated over the entire game and the heroes get +1 health each per 4 CT accumulated.

The final battle occurs at a combined total of 600 CT, so assuming an even split, the OL has 300 and gets +600 health, and each hero gets +75 CT.
 
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Sean Franco
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
This idea is completely wrong.

I'm glad to hear this if so

I was reading this near midnight last night, so maybe I wasn't fully awake and processing...

I thought that when a final battle occurred, the avatar gets +2 health per CT accumulated over the entire game and the heroes get +1 health each per 4 CT accumulated.

The final battle occurs at a combined total of 600 CT, so assuming an even split, the OL has 300 and gets +600 health, and each hero gets +75 CT.

Actually, according to pg 23 of the rulebook, this looks like it's right. After avatar upgrades, it could be even more.

That is actually less generous than RtL, where heroes got +1 maximum wounds for every 2 conquest collected (RtL, pg 20).
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Brian M
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Quote:
That is actually less generous than RtL, where heroes got +1 maximum wounds for every 2 conquest collected (RtL, pg 20).

But in RtL, conquest clears before the Overlords keep, and the extra health is only added for conquest earning during the OL's keep, not for the entire campaign like in Sea of Blood.
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Patrick G.
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logopolys wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
This idea is completely wrong.

I'm glad to hear this if so

I was reading this near midnight last night, so maybe I wasn't fully awake and processing...

I thought that when a final battle occurred, the avatar gets +2 health per CT accumulated over the entire game and the heroes get +1 health each per 4 CT accumulated.

The final battle occurs at a combined total of 600 CT, so assuming an even split, the OL has 300 and gets +600 health, and each hero gets +75 CT.

Actually, according to pg 23 of the rulebook, this looks like it's right. After avatar upgrades, it could be even more.

That is actually less generous than RtL, where heroes got +1 maximum wounds for every 2 conquest collected (RtL, pg 20).

I stand corrected. But trust me when I say the OL needs all the help he can get.
This might mean he actually gets to kill a hero.

When we did the final battle in RTL it was a fucking joke. We just stood there and dodged his attacks and beat the crap out of the avatar.

I imagine SoB would be the same so a ginormous health pool isn't a bad idea but will lead to a long battle.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
That is actually less generous than RtL, where heroes got +1 maximum wounds for every 2 conquest collected (RtL, pg 20).

But in RtL, conquest clears before the Overlords keep, and the extra health is only added for conquest earning during the OL's keep, not for the entire campaign like in Sea of Blood.


Correct. This was changed in SoB to reflect the overall progress of the game. Some players complained that it didn't really matter what the CT totals were, just get to the end fight. In SoB, CT totals do make a difference in the overall campaign.

Also, at Gold, you can do a LOT more than 18 hits, mainly because you're rolling Gold Power Dice. Those 3 surges can really stack up. There are many weapons that do +2 Dmg for every 1 surge. The heroes in my campaign are getting free surges from abilities/skills/items. Your heroes should be highly upgraded, and if not, there's fatigue and power potions. They will easily be rolling 3 if not 5 Gold Dice on every attack. If they average even 6 surges (2 of the 3 Gold Dice rolling surges, let alone bonuses from items) that's an additional +12 damage. You'll easily see heroes getting 30+ hits at Gold Level, often.

4 Heroes attacking 2 (some even 3) times a turn doing 20-30 hits each, 600+ HP won't last very long...

-shnar
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Brian M
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Thanks so much shnar! That's exactly the sort of feedback I was looking for

Never having played a campaign, I have no idea how the heroes wind up at the end. I was assuming 3 gold power dice and looked at some random gold weapons, but nothing I randomly pulled had real big boosts on surges.

Sounds like heroes get pretty upgraded; I didn't even know if it was like a regular Descent game where typically the heroes don't even all have gold weapons at the end!
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StormKnight wrote:
Sounds like heroes get pretty upgraded; I didn't even know if it was like a regular Descent game where typically the heroes don't even all have gold weapons at the end!


Usually, by the end of Gold, the Heroes will have their pick of Gold Items, a major difference between the campaign and vanilla Descent. They will have shopped many times over to get the right combination of armors/weapons/other items and they become killing machines. They also usually have health/fatigue upgrades, as well as Silver/Gold upgrades to make them powerhouses. They also usually have their pick of skills so they are truly min/maxed.

I haven't played an end fight in SoB yes, so I don't know how it's going to play out. We're almost into Gold in our current campaign, and both sides have decided to play a mock battle before the "real" one so we kind of know what to expect. I'm thinking we should do that next session, so we can start preparing as needed with the right upgrades.

-shnar
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Sean Franco
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
That is actually less generous than RtL, where heroes got +1 maximum wounds for every 2 conquest collected (RtL, pg 20).

But in RtL, conquest clears before the Overlords keep, and the extra health is only added for conquest earning during the OL's keep, not for the entire campaign like in Sea of Blood.

Ah. I stand corrected.
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Joseph LaMothe
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The bigger problem is that no one ever gets to the avatar battle in SoB anyway.
Personally, I've thought of running just the avatar's keep (as if starting a "campaign" with 300 CT to spend for each side) just becasue some of the fights/maps look really cool (especially the count and MotH).
Though I can say I'd be terribly suprised if the avatar fights are borked just like the LT encounters.
A decently built Gold team can output ~200 damage a turn.
(Heck, my first RtL campaign as the Sorceror King showed me that a Gold party can output 100+ a turn without spending surges.)
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Jeffrey Finley
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Is there official errata rules to apply this use of conquest to TRtL? how balanced would it everything stayed if this were used as a house rule for the Final battle?
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