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Subject: Learning From 1st Edition? rss

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Hello all,

A few basic questions on learning the game and keeping the initial concept count reasonable.

After learning about the game several years ago I purchased a 1st edition off ebay, organized the counters, and printed off v2 and v3 of the rulebook. I never seriously looked at v1 of the rules since I'd done a fair amount of research here on the Geek and, of course, everyone loves the later versions of the rules.

I'm an ASL player and definitely have the appetite for a dense ruleset, but I've been frustrated by my few attempts to learn the game from the updated versions of the rules - feels like too much, too soon. In (finally) looking back at the old v1 rules, I was struck by how quickly it has you up and running, setting the game up, learning concepts as you go, and slowly expanding the experience. I would much rather learn a complex game in this way than trying to digest a lot of content up front.

Am I doing myself a disservice by giving the v1 rules a read and using v3 as a reference? I assume that once I get the hang of things, I'll look at v3 more closely, but since I obviously don't know what differences exist between the two rulesets, I'm not sure if I'm setting myself up to have to unlearn a lot of content. Perhaps I should ignore v1 altogether and start with the MRIPE?

Would appreciate any and all thoughts on the matter!

Additionally, since I do have v1 ruleset, I would be happy to scan it and upload it here. Would that even be useful at this point?

Thanks!



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jumbit
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HA!! The Magic Realm rules are the poster boy for a reference guide written by someone who already knows the game and just needs to check a detail once in a while. Better men than you have tried to learn and failed.
 
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Steve McKnight
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Cale wrote:
Hello all,
Additionally, since I do have v1 ruleset, I would be happy to scan it and upload it here. Would that even be useful at this point?


I think it would be useful to have a Version 1 rulebook on the 'Geek (or anyplace on the web), but you may find that the BGG staff won't accept the upload of copyrighted material -- which is too bad since if there ever was an orphan it's the First Edition MR rules.

What the First Edition rules badly needed were the illustrated examples of the Second Editon rules. Other than that, the First Edition rules were, in fact, somewhat simplier than the Second Edition. The Second Edition took several optional rules from the First Edition (weapon length, for example) and made them standard. The major problem with learning from the First Edition is that the First Encounter is mind-numbingly boring (move around to each dwelling) and the Second Encounter introduces character vs. character combat (which many Magic Realm players like to avoid for interpersonal reasons) even before the monsters and treasures appear. It's also true that that invitingly thin blue rulebook contains text that is terse to the point of obscurity. Hours of Talmudic study are necessary to tell you what a rule means and when it applies.

That said, I know there are several people in the on-line MR community who say that they learned from the First Edition rules. I learned at a game club in Northern Virginia where Jim Stahler (Lt. Stahler to you Squad Leader fanatics), one of the Magic Realm playtesters, was a regular. And there were still things that I was doing wrong until I found the Second Edition rules years later.

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BrentS
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I learned from the First Edition rules many years ago and coped. I think its programmed learning process was much easier than what is now considered by many to be an impossible mountain to climb.....although from memory we started straight from the third encounter because the first two weren't really games. We found the stages easy to follow and I've never understood the hate it received. It was certainly an easier process than trying to crack the game from the 3rd Edition rules, which I agree are a fantastic reference for someone who already knows the game but must be a nightmare for those who don't.

You could do a lot worse than learning from 1st Ed rules. A word of warning, though. I found a number of major changes coming into 3rd Ed rules (I missed 2nd Ed), and still occassionaly come across something I've long taken for granted that has actually changed. Too numerous to fully detail here but among them are.....changed search tables (where did my "Glimpse to Find" go?); incorporation of a lot of First Ed optional rules as core rules in 3rd Ed (weapon lengths, aimed attack spells, dragon heads and giant clubs, and more); pre-game Magic chit enchanting; belonging trading while buying (relatively recent discovery for me ); a new and much more complicated Victory Point calculation system; a whole raft of complex optional rule systems; and many more.

Brent.
 
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Chakroun Karim
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goshublue wrote:
I learned from the First Edition rules many years ago and coped. I think its programmed learning process was much easier than what is now considered by many to be an impossible mountain to climb.....although from memory we started straight from the third encounter because the first two weren't really games. We found the stages easy to follow and I've never understood the hate it received. It was certainly an easier process than trying to crack the game from the 3rd Edition rules, which I agree are a fantastic reference for someone who already knows the game but must be a nightmare for those who don't.

You could do a lot worse than learning from 1st Ed rules. A word of warning, though. I found a number of major changes coming into 3rd Ed rules (I missed 2nd Ed), and still occassionaly come across something I've long taken for granted that has actually changed. Too numerous to fully detail here but among them are.....changed search tables (where did my "Glimpse to Find" go?:(); incorporation of a lot of First Ed optional rules as core rules in 3rd Ed (weapon lengths, aimed attack spells, dragon heads and giant clubs, and more); pre-game Magic chit enchanting; belonging trading while buying (relatively recent discovery for me :)); a new and much more complicated Victory Point calculation system; a whole raft of complex optional rule systems; and many more.

Brent.


Have you ever thought of reverting to the 1st ed. rules? If not, why?
 
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BrentS
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carthaginian wrote:


Have you ever thought of reverting to the 1st ed. rules? If not, why?


No. While the 1st Ed. rules are laid out in an easier to learn format, 3rd Ed. is a richer, deeper, more satisfying game.

Brent.
 
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George Ramos
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If it's worth anything to you, I learned the game by running RealmSpeak, playing the Amazon, after reading the 2nd edition rules. I then read the 3rd edition rules and only used MRIPE if something was unclear. RealmSpeak, however, was the key.
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Steven Myers
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I don't think it's that hard to learn the 1st edition rules, if you research the FAQs from those rules and the General Articles the really help explain things. The niggest rule I found I kept missing when trying to play before I read the examples was placing a chit on the target I want my character to attack.

I've been thinking about how the nuisance spells might be useful with 1e's "sudden death" Victory requirements. There's a big change in 2e in that the game always lasts 1 month, instead of going until you meet your VPs. (Food for another thread.)
 
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Brent Paschall
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I taught my two daughters (6 & 8 years old) how to play Magic Realm using the 1st Edition rules.

But I had a pretty good understanding of the game from reading the 3rd Edition rules, playing RealmSpeak, and watching same of the character example videos at Bookshelf Games
 
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Thanks for your replies, all. I'm looking forward to carving out some time to go through the rules and figure it all out. Sounds like there's a number of decent resources out there so I'm sure I'll cobble it together well enough.

Famous last words, I'm sure.
 
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