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Subject: WP supply rules rss

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Kevin Bernatz
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Hey all,
Looking to start up this game and we have some questions on the WP supply rules. Do WP HQ's/units have to be within 10 hexes of the MAP EDGE to be in general supply? Or within 10 hexes of a rail/autobahn that leads BACK to the map edge? Seems like the rule implies the former, but that would mean a huge chunk of East Germany starts OoS, including the units around Berlin!

-K
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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You are leaving out Front Supply Heads (FSH).

FSH (only) can trace a line of supply any length (see errata) to a map edge rail or Autobahn hex.

HQ can trace to the map edge or 10 MP to an FSH.

Units can trace to an Army HQ which is in supply, direct to an FSH, or to the map edge, any of the above within 10 MP.

What you can't do is trace from a unit to an HQ, then to another HQ then to an FSH (only 1 HQ in each chain).

FSHs only move when carried by rail regiments.

One more thing: all WP units are always in supply for the first 3 turns.
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Kevin Bernatz
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Yep, understand about the FSH's and their unlimited range, question is more about JUST units or JUST HQ's.

Note that "all WP units in supply" only applies if you are not using the organic supply rules. We are. What this means is that without FSH units, the WP units IN East Germany are OoS in most cases. If playing the "out of the barracks" scenario under these assumptions, WP units basically get to move once, maybe twice...make up to 3 attacks, and then are screwed until turn *3* when the FSH units arrive, and probably alot longer given how slow these guys are...even using rail movement.

Which doesn't seem logical to me, and I know other people (on CSW) play that WP supply traces to a rail/autobahn hex that then traces back to the map edge. Rule is ambiguous, IMO, and could go either way.

-K

nyhotep wrote:
You are leaving out Front Supply Heads (FSH).

FSH (only) can trace a line of supply any length (see errata) to a map edge rail or Autobahn hex.

HQ can trace to the map edge or 10 MP to an FSH.

Units can trace to an Army HQ which is in supply, direct to an FSH, or to the map edge, any of the above within 10 MP.

What you can't do is trace from a unit to an HQ, then to another HQ then to an FSH (only 1 HQ in each chain).

FSHs only move when carried by rail regiments.

One more thing: all WP units are always in supply for the first 3 turns.
 
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Dan Stueber
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The way I read the rules is all WP units are in general supply until turn 3, even if playing with organic supply. I don't believe you play with one and not the other as far as organic and general supply goes. I left a longer post on CSW about this.
 
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Kevin Bernatz
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Wish that was the case soblue

but:
"[8.43] All Warsaw Pact units deployed initially in Scenario are automatically in General Supply for the first three Game-Turns of the Scenario. "

and

"[17.0] OPTIONAL SUPPLY
GENERAL RULE:
Note: The following rules are used in addition to Section 8.0 and in place of Cases 8.4, 8.41, 8.42, 8.43, 8.44 and 8.45. "

Pretty much says that 17.00 is used in place of 8.43 ...

-K

BooBoo130 wrote:
The way I read the rules is all WP units are in general supply until turn 3, even if playing with organic supply. I don't believe you play with one and not the other as far as organic and general supply goes. I left a longer post on CSW about this.
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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Ok, I get the picture now.

Those three turns of free supply are now replaced by the 3 fuel and 3 ammo points. if you are moving a lot you are going to be in fuel-trouble, but they can still move 5 mp even if out of fuel. They can also use ammo rationing.

I don't see that the rules are ambiguous:

Quote:
[8.21] A Warsaw Pact unit is in General Supply if it is within 10 Movement Points of a Front Supply Head (FSH) (see Case 8.3), within 10 Movement Points of any east or southeast map edge railroad or Autobahn hex, or within 10 Movement Points of a HQ which is itself in General Supply as stipulated in this Case. See also Case 12.4. Note: A Warsaw Pact supply path cannot extend through more than one headquarters.


Nothing about "or rail hex leading to a map edge" there. Of course, if you believe it is too restrictive, go with the rail trace. Not much point in using the optional organic supply rules, though, as the units will very rarely be out of supply.

If you think this is restrictive, definitely don't try Campaign for North Africa: no fuel, you don't move, no ammo you don't fire, and you can only carry 1 turn's worth.
 
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Kevin Bernatz
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Taking a closer look at it (I had never played this game before, but others in our group had), I guess it isn't as bad I thought. With 6 HQ's kept back, the WP can keep pretty much all of their territory in supply (barring blown bridges), freeing up the FSH units to move with the advancing forces. And the WP have a ton of HQ's, so even leaving 6 back isn't going to hurt anything.

The two FSH's will be huge at start, since it will let people begin in general supply in the North against the uppermost flank, as well as off the road elsewhere. We'll see how things develop .

-K

nyhotep wrote:
Ok, I get the picture now.

Those three turns of free supply are now replaced by the 3 fuel and 3 ammo points. if you are moving a lot you are going to be in fuel-trouble, but they can still move 5 mp even if out of fuel. They can also use ammo rationing.

I don't see that the rules are ambiguous:

Quote:
[8.21] A Warsaw Pact unit is in General Supply if it is within 10 Movement Points of a Front Supply Head (FSH) (see Case 8.3), within 10 Movement Points of any east or southeast map edge railroad or Autobahn hex, or within 10 Movement Points of a HQ which is itself in General Supply as stipulated in this Case. See also Case 12.4. Note: A Warsaw Pact supply path cannot extend through more than one headquarters.


Nothing about "or rail hex leading to a map edge" there. Of course, if you believe it is too restrictive, go with the rail trace. Not much point in using the optional organic supply rules, though, as the units will very rarely be out of supply.

If you think this is restrictive, definitely don't try Campaign for North Africa: no fuel, you don't move, no ammo you don't fire, and you can only carry 1 turn's worth.
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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I suppose the best way to look at it is that the FSHs are just off-map in the rail hexes, about to come on, which is why you need to trace to those hexes.

Let us know how your game goes.
 
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