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Subject: Turn order for 2P game. Also looking for recommendations vs Merkator. rss

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Steve Duff
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dumazarok wrote:
I have read the rules for both the official and the "faster, gentler" two player variants of Endeavor. Neither set of rules mentions turn order, which would seem to indicate that the starting player marker is passed at the end of each round.

I'd be interesting in hearing arguments on both sides of the Endeavor vs Merkator question.


Yes, we pass the marker, so technically that's two turns in a row. Very often it doesn't really feel like that, in the sense that next turn you get a new building and can do something you couldn't the previous turn, so it still feels like a fresh turn.

Endeavor is excellent, even with 2 players.

I haven't played Merkator, it's just not very interesting to me, and the feedback from others has certainly confirmed that it's not worth searching out.
 
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Richard Ham
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Based on your preferred games, I'd say Merkator is the better option for you. Endeavor can have a fair bit of direct conflict, and the fact that you list Hansa Teutonica as a fav means you don't mind a dry theme (one of the most common complaints about Merk) and listing Loyang means you don't mind a calculation-based procedural game (the other main complaint about Merk )

But they're both fantastic 2p games, my wife and I enjoy them both a lot.

Also, regarding the Agricola stressfulness, you should consider trying it 2p with the "official" variant proposed by the designer where you add the 3p "take 1 resource + 1 other resource of your choice" card to the 2p game. Makes things a bit more open...
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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This turn order thing has me confused. How can there be two turns in a row if you don't pass on the first player marker, and how can there be two turns in a row if you do?
 
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Ægir Æxx
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Don't pass the marker:
Player 1
Player 2
-
Player 1
Player 2
-
Player 1
Player 2

Pass the marker:
Player 1
Player 2
-
Player 2
Player 1
-
Player 1
Player 2
 
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Randall Bart
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But you don't necessarily get two turns in a row, and you might get three or more turns in a row. After one player passes, the other player might take more than one turn, depending on how many disks they have.
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Steve Duff
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Randall's point is a good one (and the reason why this never seems a problem when we play) , in this game player A could have 5 actions in a given round, and player B might have only 3, so any attempt to "alternate" turns is going to fail.

Round 4:
A
B
A
B
A
B
A
A

Now, normally B would go first next round, but if you "normalized" this by keeping A first, you'd end up actually extending A's streak of turns to 3 in a row, instead of just 2.

A
B
A
...
 
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Ley Brown
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On Merk vs. Endeavor. I own both Merkator and Endeavor (as well as HT, PR (my favorite game), and Gric). I feel like you do about Gric. I think Merk probably works better as a two player game than Endeavor because the area control is important to End, but it does not come into play quite as much in 2 play. Also, Merk seems to play a little more quickly; both games can be prone to AP, if any players have those tendencies. I have played End many more times than Merk so have more informed opinion there. Ult in End you need to pay attention to all tracks, much like in Gric, despite the appearance otherwise. While there are not as many ways to score in Merk, it seems that you could follow fairly distinct paths--going for bunches of goods, turning over contracts quickly, a very particular building strategy--though it still requires a little of all of these. End has a more integrated theme, though Merk has more of a merchant feel than HT. Based on your info, I would lean toward Merk because of the two player.
 
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