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Labyrinth: The War on Terror, 2001 – ?» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Plotting in Europe and America rss

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Matt Thrower
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After a few games, I've yet to see a Jihadi player even attempt to place plots in Europe or the US. It's not hard to see why: doing so only has a 1-in-6 chance of success, and there's almost always useful things to do that have a much higher chance of working out. If you're in desperate need of funding it's also questionable how useful it is to plot in Europe as opposed to one of the non-Muslim fair governance countries: the extra posture rolls don't really seem to be worth the much lower chance of success, let alone the hassle of getting cells there in the first place.

Even if you've got WMD's (another thing I've yet to see happen) the chance of a successful plot is so minuscule, especially when the US can simply dispel it with a 3-ops card, to not be worth the risk of wasting points. And of course it activates the cells involved, leaving them more open to disruption.

So - is there any value in trying to plot in western countries? Has anyone successfully built a strategy around it? Or is it largely there as a high-risk path for desperate Jihadists to take in the event that they're looking like they'll loose the game?
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Vasilis
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1} I don't think that there is an overall strategy that can be based on plots only anywhere on the map not only Europe and America.

2} You didn't mention some useful events. Specifically Martyrdom Operation can easily place plots in europe and america provided that you manage to get cells over there.
The FEAR of having to counter 2 plots simultaneously may lead to the American player losing Ops for disruption there.

Moreover a Hard posture US player with 0 GWOT penalty is in a really good position to win the game. Those extra posture rolls in Shengen countries are more useful than they sound helping the Jihadist player increase the GWOT penalty for the US player.

If you have a HARD posture US doing War of Ideas in favorable odds then you are doing something wrong.

Having said the above, I agree that burning your Ops trying to Plot in Europe is not a good overall strategy. A player shouldn't rely on that as a strategy to win the game but that doesn't mean that a player can go as far as ignoring that possibility completely or that he should think it only when he is desperate. It's a pretty good way to force the US player to burn his Ops either by disrupting potential plot placemement by Martyrdom Operation or by losing his 3 Ops cards removing already placed Plots and risk increasing his GWOT penalty.

By the way, it should be easier for the Jihadists to plot in non-US, non-Europe countries and it should be difficult to see the Jihadists obtain a WMD. laugh

Just my 2 cents.
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Pedro Estevao
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MattDP wrote:
So - is there any value in trying to plot in western countries? Has anyone successfully built a strategy around it? Or is it largely there as a high-risk path for desperate Jihadists to take in the event that they're looking like they'll loose the game?


Plotting in Europe, Canada and the US is hard to the point of sucide. That's why there are three nasty Jihadist cards apropriately called "Martyrdom Operation" scatterd in the deck. They basically "trade" a cell for two plots in any country, without rolls. If played near the end of a turn, it's almost impossible for the US player to alert both plots. Even if he does, that means he has either:

a) kept two powerful US cards the whole turn, and thus severely conditioned his own game (aside from neutralizing the events)

b) one or two powerful Jihadist events will have to occur.

The bulk - though not all - of jihadist plots in non-muslim countries in my games comes from these cards.
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Ken Dilloo
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The Jihadist flow chart has you proritize plots in the US for a reason
 
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Volko Ruhnke
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Agree with responses above, but just to add: If the jihadists have 3 cells in Europe (or other Good countries), they can get off as many as 6 tries to roll a "1" before the US gets any response. The odds are not that long.

If Funding is very low, a plot in a European country will get the jihadists back to Ample much faster than plots in Muslim countries. If GWOT relations are the priority, one plot in Europe can work wonders.

Similarly, plotting or even jihad as a way to get a Good Muslim country back to Fair and then Poor must be considered part of the jihadists' kit bag, particularly if they are on the ropes.

vfr

PS And don't forget "KSM".
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Mark Herman
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Volko wrote:
Agree with responses above, but just to add: If the jihadists have 3 cells in Europe (or other Good countries), they can get off as many as 6 tries to roll a "1" before the US gets any response. The odds are not that long.

If Funding is very low, a plot in a European country will get the jihadists back to Ample much faster than plots in Muslim countries. If GWOT relations are the priority, one plot in Europe can work wonders.

Similarly, plotting or even jihad as a way to get a Good Muslim country back to Fair and then Poor must be considered part of the jihadists' kit bag, particularly if they are on the ropes.

vfr

PS And don't forget "KSM".


Maybe I am missing a rule here, but if I played say Regional Al Qaeda on the opening hand and placed two cells (due to Afghanistan being Islamist) into Algeria/Tunisia aren't they adjacent to the Schengen symbol. If that is the case isn't a subsequent travel move from Algeria/Tunisia into Europe automatic, no die roll?

Mark
 
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Conor Hickey
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MarkHerman wrote:
Volko wrote:
Agree with responses above, but just to add: If the jihadists have 3 cells in Europe (or other Good countries), they can get off as many as 6 tries to roll a "1" before the US gets any response. The odds are not that long.

If Funding is very low, a plot in a European country will get the jihadists back to Ample much faster than plots in Muslim countries. If GWOT relations are the priority, one plot in Europe can work wonders.

Similarly, plotting or even jihad as a way to get a Good Muslim country back to Fair and then Poor must be considered part of the jihadists' kit bag, particularly if they are on the ropes.

vfr

PS And don't forget "KSM".


Maybe I am missing a rule here, but if I played say Regional Al Qaeda on the opening hand and placed two cells (due to Afghanistan being Islamist) into Algeria/Tunisia aren't they adjacent to the Schengen symbol. If that is the case isn't a subsequent travel move from Algeria/Tunisia into Europe automatic, no die roll?

Mark


You're not missing anything, the easiest way to get into Europe is to travel to an adjacent country first, the North African countries, Russia and Turkey are good for this, it's easy to travel from Iraq or Iran to Turkey and then into Schengen. You can also go to the US direct from Philippines if Patriot Act is not in effect and you can recruit there on a 1-3.

There's also 'Homegrown' and 'Adam Gadahn' cards for recruiting or placing cells directly in the UK and US, and 'Clean Operatives' for guaranteed Travel to the US.

Plotting is obviously tough without 'Martyrdom Operation' in hand.
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Steve
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There are enough Martyrdom operation cards in the deck to make cells sitting around in Europe and the USA pretty dangerous in terms of the keeping funding up---and if they've gotten to Pakistan there is the WMD threat.

If you get plots in Europe you also get plenty of chances to really screw with the GWOT track and put the USA in a bind.
 
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Jon Hall
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I used something, and maybe I played it wrong: Schwengen Visas and KSM. Visas brought two cells into France; KSM brought a plot to France. Both events did not require a roll. I was able to get a 3 plot (KSM allows a 3 plot) into France. The US player did not have OPs (or reserve) to counter the plot...boom!

I did this on the second turn of the game when funding wasn't a big issue - but, it did force posture rolls in two other Schwengen countries: Spain and Italy - both went soft. That put the global posture at soft early in the game.

My question: other than events - can the US player disrupt a cell in Schwengen? The way I read it, it requires troops - which cannot be placed in Schwengen.

thoughts?
Jon

 
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Fabian Mainzer
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The US can always disrupt in non-muslim countries. Once if the country is soft, twice if it is hard. You only need troops to gain prestige.

Your other plays seem legal to me.
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Volko Ruhnke
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Yes, the plays sound correct.

One fine point: In a Hard Non-Muslim country, Disrupt affects (up to) 2 cells (as opposed to 1 cell twice).

Regards! Volko
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