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Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Walls rss

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Bubba McBubbles
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XX|XX|
XX|ZX|
XH|

In the above diagram a hero (H) is in the corner of the High School, while a zombie (Z) is in the corner of the gym. Technically the hero is touching the wall that the two buildings share, so he should be able to see into the Gym to shoot the zombie. However, if you look at it another way, he is on the outside corner of the Gym, and should not be able to see into it. At the moment we play the latter, that he has no line of sight into the Gym from that space. Does anybody know if this is correct?
 
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Ax Bits
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Hero has LOS for a ranged attack.
 
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So this is my new overtext ? Hmmm...
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As far as my rules interpretation goes the hero should see the zombie.

After re-reading and rethinking the situation i came to the following conclusion. Obvisouly the hero is able to see through the wall he is touching, but the wall in front of the zombie blocks his line of sight (because the hero isn't touching it). That would result in no LOS.
 
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Bubba McBubbles
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XX|XX|
XX|HX|
XX|

Thanks, I just have another question about a similar situation: A hero in the Gym builds a barricade along the shared wall. Would the barricade run all 3 spaces along the wall, or just along the 2 spaces of the gym wall?
 
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So this is my new overtext ? Hmmm...
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I would say only the two shared spaces are barricaded. Reasoning: barricades are placed along the entire length of an wall but on the inside of the building. Since the character is in the gym this 3rd space would be outside from his point of view.

And you might want to read my last post again, i edited it.
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Ax Bits
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Ploedminka wrote:
Obvisouly the hero is able to see through the wall he is touching, but the wall in front of the zombie blocks his line of sight (because the hero isn't touching it). That would result in no LOS.


Wrong. See how heroes can shoot around corners on page 13 of the rule book, notably the lower-right example.
 
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Ax Bits
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Ploedminka wrote:
I would say only the two shared spaces are barricaded. Reasoning: barricades are placed along the entire length of an wall but on the inside of the building. Since the character is in the gym this 3rd space would be outside from his point of view.

Exactly correct.
 
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Bubba McBubbles
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Maxx_Pointy wrote:
Wrong. See how heroes can shoot around corners on page 13 of the rule book, notably the lower-right example.


Ahh thanks. I think I was getting confused by the bottom left example of page 13, which shows a hero outside a building touching its corner. In my diagram he is inside a building though. So, I see your point of how its possible he has LOS, if you look at it as shooting around a corner, and not as being on the corner of the Gym. I guess its a question of interpreting that intersection of the two walls.
 
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Ax Bits
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The general rule for interpreting LOS is be drawing a line from the center of the source square to any part of the target square. If there are no walls in the way, you can make the shot.

In your example the center of the hero's square can be drawn to the upper left part of the zombie's square. Therefore LOS.
 
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So this is my new overtext ? Hmmm...
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But in this case there is another wall in the way (with a door), the one seperating the gym from the high school. I'm sticking with my "no LOS" interpretation.

The L-board is on this picture: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/240549/last-night-on-eart...
 
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Biodiesel
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I'm leaning toward no LoS because of where the small line that marks the border of the hero's square lines up with the bold line that marks the outer wall of the gym. The small line connects with that wall on the outer part of it, instead of the inner part. This is a tricky one, though.

EDIT: for being wrong.

The line in the hero's square meets the gym wall kind of like this:
__|Z
__|=====
_H|
 
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Eric Spencer
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Tough call, I think the LOS rules can be tricky. That being said, I would also rule this no line of sight were I playing. I'd probably take a player vote, but were it up to me I would deny LOS because of the layout.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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I would say no LOS for this situation.

If the High School weren't there at all and the Hero was just trying to shoot into the Gym from that spot outside, the lower left example on page 13 is very clear that there is no LOS.

So if we are saying that this particular situation does provide LOS, then we are saying that somehow the fact that the Hero is standing next to a portion of the High School wall helps him see into the Gym. It just doesn't make sense.

But I agree that the rules are unclear about this. My guess is that the reasoning behind the rule of thumb that a Hero can treat a wall he is touching as not being there is because he is leaning out of it through a window *in his square* and aiming at stuff. So in this case, the Hero broke a window out of the High School wall he is touching and is trying to shoot at the Zombie. However, the Zombie is protected by the other Gym wall.
 
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Ax Bits
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You're all still wrong. The rules are quite clear that touching a wall makes the entire length of the wall invisible for line of sight.
As such, the situation with pertinent walls looks like this:

XXXX|
XXZX|
XH

It's the same set up as shooting around the interior corner of the Hospital or Supermarket.

To have the situation you all seem so desperate to imagine is happening, you need a double wall like the one found between the Library and Antique Shop.
Again, with invisible walls removed:

__|XX|
XX|Z|
XH

Clearly the zombie has cover in this situation.

But the two situations are obviously different. You might not like the rule, or think it's unrealistic, but that doesn't make it vague or questionable or unclear.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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I agree with you, Ax Bits, that the rules as stated give LOS from the Hero to the Zombie. If you just take that entire wall away because the Hero is touching part of it (like the rules say to do), then the Hero can shoot the Zombie. If you want to stop there and play it like that, that's perfectly fine.

However, I'm just trying to explore it further because it doesn't actually make logical sense. Picture this: I'm standing outside the Gym before the High School was built. I can't shoot the Zombie. However, if the Zombie and I stay where we are and someone builds the High School around me, now I can all of a sudden shoot the Zombie. What changed? Now that the wall has been extended near me, I can now shoot through portions of the wall that aren't near me?

Personally, I think that the rules as written are bad in this particular case. I think that the Hero should not have LOS, but I agree with you that the rules would need to be re-written in order to make this so.
 
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Ax Bits
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I think the rule is written the way it is written because it's simple, clear, and easy. "Touch a wall, it's invisible!"

I'd rather redraw the map with an extra wall inside the gym so heroes can't shoot in from that particular spot.
 
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Biodiesel
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I went back and looked at my rulebook, and this is what it says in the LoS examples: "A hero can see out of any wall he touches".

That is pretty clear, so I'd have to reverse my earlier opinion and agree with Maxx.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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An even simpler rule that I would actually prefer is:

A hero can see out of any wall segment in his square.

This would limit the range of Heroes in buildings, but makes a little more sense to me. Heroes would get a narrow cone of LOS, starting from their square, out the "window".

This would be a lot more claustrophobic for the Heroes, but that fits in with the theme, anyway. :-)
 
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John Saturn
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randomlife wrote:


However, I'm just trying to explore it further because it doesn't actually make logical sense. Picture this: I'm standing outside the Gym before the High School was built. I can't shoot the Zombie.


I don't know if I understand you but you might be wrong. If there was no high school, we would have exactly the same situation as in the lower-left picture from page 13. Now we extend the wall by 1 'tile' but since the hero is touching it, it's 'invisible' to him and we still have the same situation as the rule book picture. And also it is not so 'unrealistic' - the hero standing at a corner can bend to either left or right and shoot through a window behind the cornet. in our case he just can't do this to the right, but left stays the same (co he can bend and shoot through the inner wall separating school from gym). Following the rules even further according to our picture on p13 the zombie can be standing in any tile belonging to gym and still be a legal target for los. That's my call. At the beginning I was convinced for illegal los, but after remembering the p13 picture it must be legal los.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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John, just so that we're clear, you do realize that the lower left example on pg. 13 shows that the inside of the building is not within the Hero's line of sight, right?

You sound like you're making a case that a Hero should be able to shoot inside a building if he's standing at the outside corner. Which isn't true, according to the rules.
 
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Ax Bits
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randomlife wrote:
An even simpler rule that I would actually prefer is:

A hero can see out of any wall segment in his square.

This would limit the range of Heroes in buildings, but makes a little more sense to me. Heroes would get a narrow cone of LOS, starting from their square, out the "window".

This would be a lot more claustrophobic for the Heroes, but that fits in with the theme, anyway. :-)


It might swing the balance too far against the Heroes. It may be worth playtesting. (I'm assuming it was playtested by the Frogs and found lacking.)
 
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John Saturn
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randomlife wrote:
John, just so that we're clear, you do realize that the lower left example on pg. 13 shows that the inside of the building is not within the Hero's line of sight, right?

You sound like you're making a case that a Hero should be able to shoot inside a building if he's standing at the outside corner. Which isn't true, according to the rules.


I don't how could I confuse that yesterday :> Nvm. ignore my last post. But I believe Maxx explanation was correct here.
 
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