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Subject: Can the Keeper win scenario 1 choice A1? (Might contain Spoilers) rss

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Mariano Rico
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To encourage further discussion about this Scenario (and maybe applicable to others), here is my point :

- Investigators, when certain that there is no time to achieve victory for the group, could force a stalemate (encouraged in the rules under No Win Situations) by killing themselves before last Event card is resolved, but after Objective is revealed (eliminates them right away).

Now, is there any place in the rules where this is not allowed? Probably not addressed. I believe thematically it would be "gamey" not to allow an investigator to kill himself at anytime if willing to do so. And in this particular situation, it seems wiser than just staying alive to give victory to your opponent...

From a Lovecraftian point of view it fits with the theme even more than surviving.

Now, since this could lead to break some scenarios, this could be solved by stating in the rules that elimination of all players is always a Keeper win. But currently this is not the case, I believe.

Thoughts?

 
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David S.
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I'd say they could force the stalemate that way.

However, remember that an investigator cannot target another as a valid target for an attack.

So in order to do this they would have to charge full on toward your monsters to die. If you see this happening then move your monsters away and use uncontrollable urges to move the investigators further away,

That should give enough time for the final event card to come.
 
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King of All Simians — Not a Mere Diplomat
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If a group plays it that way, they're playing it wrong... A "win" earned by standing in a burning room and immolating yourself is, while perhaps condoned by a strict reading of the rules, contrary to the point of playing a game like this. If absolute winning conditions are all that matter to a group, they should be playing something else.

I'd definitely consider it a house rule, if not an unspoken assumption, that if all the investigators are dead at the end of the session, the keeper has won the game in a rout.
 
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Milan Mašát
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Acererak wrote:
Now, since this could lead to break some scenarios, this could be solved by stating in the rules that elimination of all players is always a Keeper win. But currently this is not the case, I believe.

It is in the rules.
p. 6 "In addition to completing his story objective, the keeper also wins if all of the investigators are eliminated."
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Mariano Rico
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Malekous wrote:


However, remember that an investigator cannot target another as a valid target for an attack.


There are some Trauma cards that specifically allow this to happen. But that´s a Keeper decision in any case. You could try by throwing yourself into a burning room for example, although you might need a lot of turns to burn to death. Wow, what an ending for a Horror game in any case.

Malekous wrote:
So in order to do this they would have to charge full on toward your monsters to die. If you see this happening then move your monsters away and use uncontrollable urges to move the investigators further away,

That should give enough time for the final event card to come.


This (whcih sounds like a bit comic situation even) is not possible since it´s also Keeper decision to attack or not with a monster.

But in any case, I think this situation (investigators getting a higher win by dying) is a bit contradictory with the current rules since most ways of dying are in the Keeper hands. And feels like a gamey possibility. But thematically, why woud an investigator not be allowed to put his own shotgun to his head and shoot?


 
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Mariano Rico
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Vodnyk wrote:
Acererak wrote:
Now, since this could lead to break some scenarios, this could be solved by stating in the rules that elimination of all players is always a Keeper win. But currently this is not the case, I believe.

It is in the rules.
p. 6 "In addition to completing his story objective, the keeper also wins if all of the investigators are eliminated."


Good catch! Well, problem solved then. Makes total sense to me this way.
 
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Milan Mašát
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Acererak wrote:
But thematically, why woud an investigator not be allowed to put his own shotgun to his head and shoot?


It is called "giving up" in which case we rule it so that the other side wins...
Which would happen even in this game. see my previous post.
 
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Milan Mašát
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Acererak wrote:
Vodnyk wrote:
Acererak wrote:
Now, since this could lead to break some scenarios, this could be solved by stating in the rules that elimination of all players is always a Keeper win. But currently this is not the case, I believe.

It is in the rules.
p. 6 "In addition to completing his story objective, the keeper also wins if all of the investigators are eliminated."


Good catch! Well, problem solved then. Makes total sense to me this way.

The rules are huge, and miss one small sentence is not that hard. I think they did not point it out well.
 
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Mariano Rico
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Vodnyk wrote:
Acererak wrote:
Vodnyk wrote:
Acererak wrote:
Now, since this could lead to break some scenarios, this could be solved by stating in the rules that elimination of all players is always a Keeper win. But currently this is not the case, I believe.

It is in the rules.
p. 6 "In addition to completing his story objective, the keeper also wins if all of the investigators are eliminated."


Good catch! Well, problem solved then. Makes total sense to me this way.

The rules are huge, and miss one small sentence is not that hard. I think they did not point it out well.


Important enough to highlight it a bit more, indeed. Thanks for your help!
 
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Brian M
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For the record, there IS a scenario later that the investigators could possibly prevent the keeper from winning in a similar way, but it would be tough to do and pretty darn thematic given the scenario.
 
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Caleb Wynn
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We played for the first time tonight and the Keeper won (me).
 
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David S.
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Acererak wrote:
Malekous wrote:


However, remember that an investigator cannot target another as a valid target for an attack.


There are some Trauma cards that specifically allow this to happen. But that´s a Keeper decision in any case. You could try by throwing yourself into a burning room for example, although you might need a lot of turns to burn to death. Wow, what an ending for a Horror game in any case.


There are 2 cards and they require the investigators to be at 0 sanity and are discarded after use. Not enough for them to kill eachother unless they get very lucky.

Acererak wrote:
Malekous wrote:
So in order to do this they would have to charge full on toward your monsters to die. If you see this happening then move your monsters away and use uncontrollable urges to move the investigators further away,

That should give enough time for the final event card to come.


This (whcih sounds like a bit comic situation even) is not possible since it´s also Keeper decision to attack or not with a monster.

But in any case, I think this situation (investigators getting a higher win by dying) is a bit contradictory with the current rules since most ways of dying are in the Keeper hands. And feels like a gamey possibility. But thematically, why woud an investigator not be allowed to put his own shotgun to his head and shoot?


He is, its the other insanity card called The Only Way Out

At any rate, the keeper will win (as stated by the rules) if all investigators are eliminated.
 
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