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This came up in a game today at lunch. I was using the dragon master sorcerers and conquered a region next to an occupied sea region (the sea region was occupied by a single active Orc unit). After some debate, the group decided that the sorcerer could not attack sea region with its special ability. Thus, thwarting my cleverness... Has anyone else encountered this scenario? What is the correct answer?

Yes, you can use the special ability to attack sea regions (assuming it is occupied by a single active race token).

OR.

No, only races with the sea faring attribute can occupy a sea region at any given time.
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Pieter
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ManitobaWarrior wrote:
No, only races with the sea faring attribute can occupy a sea region at any given time.

This.
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LSU LSU
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Agree with Pieter. The only way to conquer lakes/seas is with seafaring power.
 
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d s
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I can agree with that. It's funny that the sorcerer's ability says that it can conquer ANY neighboring region... I know that the seafarer ability says that you can conquer lakes and seas "as if they were regions".However, at scoring time, you score points for conquered regions. Unless it reads you score points for any conquered region, sea or lake.

Something to compare to...

If you own the fortress attribute, then say you own a region with a fortress placed therein, when that region is conquered by an opponent does the fortress stay behind to be used by the opponent?

If it does stay behind (and the +1 dollar for each region with a fortress in it does not apply), I can't see why the sorcerer can't take advantage of the seafarer attribute on sea or lake regions. In both cases one player is taking advantage of another players attribute.

Taking over a fortress does not give you extra money (but does give you extra defense), whereas taking over a sea or lake region (with sorcerer ability) does not let you attack other sea regions (but does at least let you own that region you conquered with the sorcerer special ability).

Not to knit-pick but, these are some deep questions stirring in my mind...

 
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Dan Schaeffer
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The only race that can conquer a sea/lake region is a race with the Seafaring power. For non-Seafaring races, the seas and lake are not "regions" for conquest purposes.

Think of it this way: A has no way to build or use a boat to take advantage of the sea or lake. Since he can't use it, the region is of no value to him. Being practically minded, as Sorcerers are, he won't even bother zapping that lone token out there on the water in a boat. Even if it's an Orc and it's making rude gestures at him.
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B C Z
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Fortresses are removed from the region when the associated race's last token is removed from that region for any reason.

Troll Lairs are removed from the region then the last Troll token is removed from that region for any reason.

Seas/Lakes are not regions.

Seafaring lets you conquer those areas as though they were regions

Sorcerer lets you conquer regions.

So, if you had Seafaring Sorcerers, sure, you can conquer the Seas/Lakes normally, but wouldn't be able to 'zap' into the region because no-one else is there.

Likewise, if your Sorcerers are not seafaring, they cannot enter the Seas/Lakes, so they cannot 'zap' into those areas.
 
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C. Atkinson
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ManitobaWarrior wrote:
If you own the fortress attribute, then say you own a region with a fortress placed therein, when that region is conquered by an opponent does the fortress stay behind to be used by the opponent?


Nope.
 
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Bryan Stout
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ManitobaWarrior wrote:
Not to knit-pick but, these are some deep questions stirring in my mind...

You can answer these deep questions by delving the depths of the rulebook, and pondering their implications:

Fortified rules wrote:
Remove the Fortress if you abandon the Region or when an enemy conquers it.

No one else can "take advantage" of the Forts.

Seafaring rules wrote:
You can consider the Seas and Lakes as 3 empty Regions you may conquer.

Ie., to everyone else they are not Regions, so they don't fall into "any neighboring region".

[Edited to include the quote I was responding to, since several people responded while I was writing it.]
 
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d s
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Yeah I can agree with that. I guess my confusion comes from the same game where just before I wanted to convert the lone sea region token, I had conquered a fortress and everyone agreed that the fortress stayed in the region (now under dragon master sorcerer control). We played that part wrong. Live and learn!
 
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Tiwaz Tyrsfist
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If due to a miss print, bad packaging, or stealing from another copy of the game, you have TWO copies of Sea-Faring, then it could be possible...

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byronczimmer wrote:
"Seafaring lets you conquer those areas as though they were regions

I agree with Byron's answer to this. But in light of the following comment I'd like to take it one step further.

ManitobaWarrior wrote:
The seafarer ability says that you can conquer lakes and seas "as if they were regions". However, at scoring time, you score points for conquered regions. Unless it reads you score points for any conquered region, sea or lake.

Fortunately, you are able to score them like regions as well, when no one else can.

The Sorcerers' ability to ZAP tokens...ah, a fresh topic for a new day! (You know we're Geeks because we still respond to these posts...) LOL

 
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Steven Wyman
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Short version: Only if they are Seafaring Sorcerers.
 
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robosheep wrote:
Short version: Only if they are Seafaring Sorcerers.


But if there's a unit there to zap, then that unit must be from an (active) Seafaring race, so they can't be Seafaring Sorcerers.
 
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d s
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It really comes down to the point where one players attributes cannot be used/inherited by another player. Thanks for the comments everyone.


The answer is officially:


No, only races with the sea faring attribute can occupy a sea region at any given time.
 
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Rob Handley
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The Sorcerers' ability to ZAP tokens...ah, a fresh topic for a new day! (You know we're Geeks because we still respond to these posts...) LOL

[/q]

Regarding the ZAPPING...... I our game last night, we had a minor scuffle regarding whether my Sorcerer could ZAP a lost tribe unit (to get myself another Sorcerer) - but my opponents quoted the rulebook which says 'Once per turn substitute an opponent's single active token with a new Sorcerer to conquer an adjacent region'
So is a 'lost tribe' an opponent? Could I ZAP it to get a Sorcerer? Or must it be an opponent's unit?

 
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Bryan Stout
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Rab_C wrote:

Quote:
The Sorcerers' ability to ZAP tokens...ah, a fresh topic for a new day! (You know we're Geeks because we still respond to these posts...) LOL



Regarding the ZAPPING...... I our game last night, we had a minor scuffle regarding whether my Sorcerer could ZAP a lost tribe unit (to get myself another Sorcerer) - but my opponents quoted the rulebook which says 'Once per turn substitute an opponent's single active token with a new Sorcerer to conquer an adjacent region'
So is a 'lost tribe' an opponent? Could I ZAP it to get a Sorcerer? Or must it be an opponent's unit?


The point is not whether or not it is an opponent. The point is whether or not it is active. All tokens with a broken column icon on them are in decline, hence not active. Therefore, the Sorcerers' zap conquest cannot affect Lost Tribes.
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