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Subject: Battle Savvy? BOld? Drummers? Support? rss

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Sebastian G.
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Correct me please,
Battle Savvy states that all units now battle back? *(This is the recommended way to play?)
In that case, Bold doesn't exist but Support still does? So Bold is useless... and dead. But Support is still great stuff?
Battle-backs are restricted by terrain, aren't they?

I remember seeing something about this but I do not know where.

Thanks Gents and lady (I am sure there is one out there).

-Sebastian
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Michael Wheal
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Defender battles back if he doesn't move out of the hex.

Bold - increases the flag requirements to force a defender to retreat.


Consider a roll of 2 flags and a miss (of any colour)


A supported unit.. ignores the first flag and runs

A Bold supported unit (those pesky dwarves) ignores BOTH flags and battles back

A Bold x2 supported unit.. ignores the first 3 flags.


Bold can come from being supported, innate ability or Lore effect.
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Mara Saurio
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Bold still allows you to avoid one black flag: if you flee you cannot battleback, so it's better to be bold.
Support provides "boldness", and so do the musicians and several landmarks. "Boldness" is accumulative, so you can be able to avoid several flags.

I played Battle Savvy three or four times, but I do like the risk of leaving a unit unsupported and being attacked by free, so I think I'll still play the normal rules.
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Sebastian G.
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Thank you for your quick replies.
you Fanatics! Laughs and Laughter, Sloth and Slaughter.
You have aided me greeeeatly.
(I don't see the fun of Battle Savvy).

Thx
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Giles Pritchard
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It's a contentious addition to the rules - some love it, some hate it, many wonder what we're all talking about.

Just my opinion of course, but I really like the additions to the game Battlesavvy brings - but I didn't in the first game or two.

Some of the things I like are:

-Bold is important (not running is key so the units can Battleback).
-Ranged units are fundamental as they weaken a unit before it is engaged by foot soldiers.
-Use of terrain as protection from heavy hitting units and ranged units is important.
-A unit can defend itself even if you don't have a command card to activate it - meaning that a green unit can't pound a red unit in a flank for which you had no card without consequence.
-It also feels like every engagement is a risk you have to have calculated in your favour, and that the game is more bloody.

Of course - there are others who hate it because they liked the 'positional play' offered through the more restrictive card mechanism without the battleback - I still think that type of play is important, but again - I much prefer playing with the Battl Savvy rules.

Cheers,

Giles.
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Vasilis
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Battle Savvy rules are a matter of heavy debate among fans and I don't want to start another one. I'll just state my opinion and leave it at that:

1} Battle Savvy rules are the best thing that happened to this troubled game.

2} Battle Savvy rules do seem simpler than the old rules BUT if one sticks with them a little bit longer than the usual "played them 2-3 times and then reverted back to the old rules", will see that they are indeed more tactical and more real-life like than the old rules.

3} Old rules make no sense to me whatsoever.

4} Look here:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...

you will do well to read this whole thread as it has comprehensive posts defending both rulesets and if you look at the 3rd post you'll see the game's designer recommending playing with Battle Savvy rules from now on including when playing the older scenarios.

5} Stick with Battle Savvy for at least 10+ scenarios before you pass judgement. They are the kind of rules changes that seem simpler in theory but actually make the game less luck-dependent, more balanced and more tactical overall. They also fix some imbalances with some Lore cards and among the two fantasy races.

Just my 2 cents. Expect full counterarguments to follow below. All I'm saying is try and play with Battle Savvy a lot more than 2-3 times before making up your mind. This ruleset makes the game A LOT better IMHO.
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Todd Rewoldt
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My lengthy counterargument:
If you ain't ready for the attack, you don't battle back
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Ben Boersma
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I was very against Battle Back to begin with, but after a number of games it became evident that it was a clever addition (IMHO).

We won't play without it now.

There are some that don't like it still (and that's ok Todd - we don't hold it against you )

Cheers,
Ben.
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brian
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I was lukewarm on Battle savvy. But after speaking with Richard on a question about Napoleonics, it seems battle Lore was never meant to have the old rule and this was another thing DOW screwed up. FFG's battle savvy is a way to fix BL to be in line with the other games.

Likewise, if a unit retreats during the first attack and then holds his ground after the follow-on attack, he should be able to battle back. The old DOW rule was that once you ran, you could never battle back in the same turn against the same unit. That was a mistake also and FFG might be fixing this as well.
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Michael Cowles
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toddrew wrote:
My lengthy counterargument:
If you ain't ready for the attack, you don't battle back

Hmmm - that's similar to my problem with Battle-Back; I don't mind battle hardened (savvy) troops fighting back, but I want them to earn their stripes, so they only get to use Battle-Back after they've already been successful in combat angry
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David Vanden Heuvel
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In the ffg thread posted above, a user at that bottom of the thread mentioned using battle savvy with -1d.

How do people feel about using that rule?
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Kent Reuber
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Lt Col Lippert 1944 wrote:
Thank you for your quick replies.
you Fanatics! Laughs and Laughter, Sloth and Slaughter.
You have aided me greeeeatly.
(I don't see the fun of Battle Savvy).


After playing C&C Ancients, I thought the default battle back BattleLore rules were a bit extreme. (How different are medieval units from C&CA Gauls and Britons who can freely battle back?) When I talked with Richard Borg about a year ago, he said that his group plays that red and blue units are battle savvy but that levies (green) might not be.

If you wanted to take a middle ground, I'd recommend subtracting a battle back die for each support you're lacking. So, if you only have 1 supporting unit, you're -1 die, and having no supporting unit, you're -2 dice. That means that green units left alone can't battle back at all, but battle back for red units might be, at most, cut in half.
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Kevin Gordon
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I'm just now getting back into BattleLore (though it has remained my favorite game since I first got it, just didn't have anyone to play it with), so I've never heard of these Battle Savvy rules. When did they come out and where can they be found in their entirety?

Thanks.
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David Vanden Heuvel
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I like the idea of subtracting dice for every support you are lacking.
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Ben Boersma
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kevster wrote:
I'm just now getting back into BattleLore (though it has remained my favorite game since I first got it, just didn't have anyone to play it with), so I've never heard of these Battle Savvy rules. When did they come out and where can they be found in their entirety?

Thanks.


On Fantasty Flight's Battlelore Support page there are rule downloads for many of the products. Any of the FFG produced games has Battle Savvy rules in them from memory.

Cheers,
Ben.
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Sigurdur Gunnarsson
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I kind of like the idea that red units are battle savvy and the others not. Seems like often the blue units outplay the red units because they´re so slow.
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Todd Rewoldt
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
I was lukewarm on Battle savvy. But after speaking with Richard on a question about Napoleonics, it seems battle Lore was never meant to have the old rule and this was another thing DOW screwed up. FFG's battle savvy is a way to fix BL to be in line with the other games.


I am not so sure that DoW "screwed up" as much as decided to alter the rule. Ether way, I continue to enjoy the impact that the Medieval Tactics as described in the original rule book have on game play, especially in regards to the lore cards. I've gone on at length in other threads, but the crux of it for me is that one must deal with ones forces in a more cohesive manner, in general, with the old rules than the new (or the new rules than the old, depending upon ones perspective ).

Ultimately a matter of taste, not of realism. I'm quite comfortable playing with the battle savvy rules, and am cool playing that way if it is the preference of the opponent (hey, can't be choosey when it comes to this game ), but I much prefer the twists and turns the game takes when positions crumble in the no BS game.

I do like the idea of select units being battle savvy veterans - in effect we have this with knights, etc. - and am hoping that a campaign system appears that incorporates such a mechanic. First things first, however...
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Dan Cavaliere
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Sebatian,

I look at Battle Savvy rules like Medieval Lore rules - they're another way to play the game. If you like them, use them.

I guess the positive side to all of the different rules/styles is that we have choices on which way we can play. Unless my group of opponents expands beyond the 2 or 3 people I play I think I can keep it all straight shake
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Andreas Krüger
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kevster wrote:
I'm just now getting back into BattleLore (though it has remained my favorite game since I first got it, just didn't have anyone to play it with), so I've never heard of these Battle Savvy rules. When did they come out and where can they be found in their entirety?

Thanks.


They came with the Heroes expansion.
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Ed Bradley
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Are creature units battle-savvy or only humanoid ones?
 
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brian
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Fwing wrote:
Are creature units battle-savvy or only humanoid ones?

Humanoid. Creatures have their own rules.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Fwing wrote:
Are creature units battle-savvy or only humanoid ones?

Humanoid. Creatures have their own rules.


I didn't know that - is this in the Creatures rules, or in the Heroes rules?
 
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brian
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
Fwing wrote:
Are creature units battle-savvy or only humanoid ones?

Humanoid. Creatures have their own rules.


I didn't know that - is this in the Creatures rules, or in the Heroes rules?

Creatures. I just mean that Creatures are governed by their own set of rules. Battle savvy doesn't apply to them.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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Ah, yes, I see that the rules say that "troops" are battle savvy, and troops excludes creatures (see glossary).
 
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