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Subject: Macao vs Navegador rss

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Chris Wood
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Darien
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I was wondering what you thought of these games compared to each other. They both have many paths to victory, and both have multiple mechanics working together to produce a very fun game. Which do you like better? Can you compare and contrast these two?
 
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Doug Faust
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Navegador really explores supply-and-demand economics, and is more thematic and interactive, where Macao is all about resource management, and feels more Euro and abstract. I like both games, but they are very different.
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Paul
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Interesting, thanks Doug. Both are high on my wishlist at this point (birthday is about a month and couple weeks away). I'd love to try both out.
 
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Doug said it very well. I will add a few things.

I liked Macao, and loved Navegador. Navegador has a little bit of setup, but the board is well designed so you can take hints from it, and not have to refer back to the rulebook (it has light areas where the pieces start on the market tracks, for example). We put the pieces in Plano boxes, which saved opening lots of small bags for the coins and privilege tiles. Macao doesn't necessarily have more setup, just a different sort, and I don't like making the little stacks of cards and laying them around the board.

Macao has ships that move around from place to place, but it doesn't feel the same as exploring the map in Navegador.

In Navegador, the market is affected by your and your opponent's actions. Also, sailing into new regions will push the game to the next stage, which raises prices but also does beneficial things like refill the privilege tokens. In Macao, there is a bit of "getting there first" for the best price, and some blocking by buying certain districts, so the interaction is somewhat similar.

There are lots of bits in Navegador, but they are interesting shapes. Macao has a lot of cubes.

Managing the cards on your player mat in Macao is an interesting way to impose restrictions, but stressful, whereas Navegador feels like an embarrassment of riches to me, and it's more like, who can do the most? Navegador often has surprises, just when I think I know what Sam's going to do, he does something completely different. I enjoy that.

I would play Navegador any time, any place - I see it settling in as a Top 10 game for me.
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M. Shanmugasundaram
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Looks like I'm in the minority.

To me, Macao has incredible variability. Setup is a bit more involved. It's highly unlikely that you'll be able to pursue similar paths across multiple games.

For me, Macao requires significant thought. What cubes do I need now? What risks am I willing to take?

A monkey could play Navegador and win. I say this with confidence, because when I played with a bunch of noobs, I came in second without caring, and the owner (who had played before) won the game. I just kept buying one type of thing over and over, even if I was otherwise sitting idle during turns. At the last minute, I was barely able to diversify enough to pick up a few extra points.

Maybe it's that there's very little risk management in Navegador, and I like that aspect of Macao -- the dice, and the card selection. There also seems to be too much going on in Navegador. Very difficult to focus your efforts: chaos through attention diffusion.

And for the record, everyone else enjoyed Navegador. I was the lone holdout. I despised the supply-demand slider table, and really didn't like the exploration aspect of the game.

Don't necessarily consider Navegador to be thematic, but I agree that Macao is pretty much abstract.

I'd be fine never playing Navegador again. I don't usually suggest Macao, but I'm happy to play it.
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rumble wrote:
Looks like I'm in the minority.

To me, Macao has incredible variability. Setup is a bit more involved. It's highly unlikely that you'll be able to pursue similar paths across multiple games.

For me, Macao requires significant thought. What cubes do I need now? What risks am I willing to take?

A monkey could play Navegador and win. I say this with confidence, because when I played with a bunch of noobs, I came in second without caring, and the owner (who had played before) won the game. I just kept buying one type of thing over and over, even if I was otherwise sitting idle during turns. At the last minute, I was barely able to diversify enough to pick up a few extra points.

Maybe it's that there's very little risk management in Navegador, and I like that aspect of Macao -- the dice, and the card selection. There also seems to be too much going on in Navegador. Very difficult to focus your efforts: chaos through attention diffusion.

And for the record, everyone else enjoyed Navegador. I was the lone holdout. I despised the supply-demand slider table, and really didn't like the exploration aspect of the game.

Don't necessarily consider Navegador to be thematic, but I agree that Macao is pretty much abstract.

I'd be fine never playing Navegador again. I don't usually suggest Macao, but I'm happy to play it.


I like Macao better as well, although I do like Navegador. Particularly the market dynamics.

I'd agree that Macao has less theme than Navegador. But I don't feel like the theme is all that strong in Navegador, so it isn't much of draw one way or another for me.

I think Macao is a risk reward game. How much risk are you willing to take at which stage. It's more a brain burner for me than Navegador. When I'm tired out, Navegador is light enough with enough meat that I can enjoy it. When I am not tired, I think there are more interesting decisions in Macao than Navegador.

Finally, I play a lot of two player games, and I think Macao is the clear winner there. Navegador always feels pretty slanted towards certain strategies in two-player than in multiplayer.
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Damien Seb. ●leoskyangel●
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I really like Navegador, although as far as I can remember, the last time I played Macao, I actually like it as well. Probably because I've recently played Navegador the 3rd time in the past 2 weeks, and that is why it's all over me.

1 From what I can see (apart from other things), Navegador shines from the circular rondel system while Macao shines from the circular wind rose+using cubes for action.

2 Navegador can really handles 5 players game very well (in just 1.5 hours, no kidding), while Macao performs the same way with 4 players too.

3 Thematically, I feel it more in Navegador. Just to name a few, there is always uncertain market price for the selling and processing goods. In nautical/exploring, one of your ship will sink/lost in the sea when exploring a new region. Since new ships start in Portugal sea area, this will make it harder.

4 Best of all, if it's your thing, Navegador has less luck than Macao. The only luck based in Navegador is when the colony tokens (that have different prices) are randomly placed at their respective locations.


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[q="

4 Best of all, if it's your thing, Navegador has less luck than Macao. The only luck based in Navegador is when the colony tokens (that have different prices) are randomly placed at their respective locations.


[/q]

It does have more luck, mainly the dice roll and the card order. But that's part of the risk balancing that's part of the game. Do you really think you'll activate that card early enough for it to be a factor? There is some luck in Navegador in terms of which colonies come up when and how much money you get as a result. But definitely less. The luck factor really doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would in Macao.

I still think the theme is super think in Navegador. I don't feel like an explorer. But then, I like Hansa T a lot so take that with a grain of salt (but I do like Arkham etc. that have a lot of theme).
 
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Jason Weed
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Navegador
 
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