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Subject: The shortest dominion game ever? rss

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Vic R
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Hello. this is my first session reports, so any advice is strongly suggested. I think this is one of the shortest games of dominion, barely 12 turns.

So in 23 turns (12 + 11 of my opponent) we bought the 28 cards needed to deplete three piles (conspirators, ironworks and great halls) without taking account other card (I bought a couple of bazars and silvers and my opponent took several havens,a gold, silvers and other cards). I suposse is possible to end the game fastest than turn 12 if you do on pourpose but we are not, seriously.

I started with Ironworks, Great Halls because I always prefer great hall to silver, I know it can be a mistake but there is only 8 out there and sometimes is the little points that counts. My opponent choose ironworks, workshop, which are very similar cards. In anycase I started to race for great hall and with ironworks is quite easy, and my opponents follow me after. When they got depleted we used ironworks to get more ironworks and my opponent started to get conspirator

In fact it was a good move because with great hall and ironworks picking other action, conspirators always were played with the +1card+1 action, but my opponent failed to see the 3 piles depleted condition. When I realised there was only a couple ironworks and conspirator, I bought a duchy (to ensure victory although I knew I had more great halls) and ended the game with a 11-6 victory. I think the most interesting feature of this game is its duration and I wonder if there are a shorter game in the sessions of BGG. If yes, please post a link in this thread I would like to read. (I mean an honest game like this not a made up game or puzzle game to play the shortest dominion, although this is also interesting)

and now the dreared and not so long log

Vica wins!
Conspirators, Ironworks, and Great Halls are all gone.

cards in supply: Bazaar, Conspirator, Contraband, Council Room, Great Hall, Haven, Ironworks, Library, Tactician, and Workshop

----------------------

#1 vica: 11 points (5 Great Halls, a Duchy, and 3 Estates); 12 turns
opening: Ironworks / Great Hall
[31 cards] 6 Ironworks, 5 Great Halls, 3 Conspirators, 2 Havens, 1 Bazaar, 7 Coppers, 3 Silvers, 3 Estates, 1 Duchy

#2 xeylo: 6 points (3 Estates and 3 Great Halls); 11 turns
opening: Ironworks / Workshop
[30 cards] 7 Conspirators, 4 Ironworks, 3 Great Halls, 2 Havens, 1 Tactician, 1 Workshop, 7 Coppers, 1 Silver, 1 Gold, 3 Estates

----------------------

trash: nothing
league game: no

Game log

Turn order is vica and then xeylo.

(vica's first hand: an Estate and 4 Coppers.)
(xeylo's first hand: an Estate and 4 Coppers.)

--- vica's turn 1 ---
vica plays 4 Coppers.
vica buys an Ironworks.
(vica draws: 2 Estates and 3 Coppers.)

--- xeylo's turn 1 ---
xeylo plays 4 Coppers.
xeylo buys an Ironworks.
(xeylo draws: 2 Estates and 3 Coppers.)

--- vica's turn 2 ---
vica plays 3 Coppers.
vica buys a Great Hall.
(vica reshuffles.)
(vica draws: a Great Hall, 2 Estates, and 2 Coppers.)

--- xeylo's turn 2 ---
xeylo plays 3 Coppers.
xeylo buys a Workshop.
(xeylo reshuffles.)
(xeylo draws: an Estate, 3 Coppers, and a Workshop.)

--- vica's turn 3 ---
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays 3 Coppers.
vica buys a Great Hall.
(vica draws: an Estate, 3 Coppers, and an Ironworks.)

--- xeylo's turn 3 ---
xeylo plays a Workshop.
... gaining an Ironworks.
xeylo plays 3 Coppers.
xeylo buys a Great Hall.
(xeylo draws: 2 Estates and 3 Coppers.)

--- vica's turn 4 ---
vica plays an Ironworks.
... gaining a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays 4 Coppers.
vica buys an Ironworks.
(vica reshuffles.)
(vica draws: 2 Great Halls, a Copper, and 2 Ironworks.)

--- xeylo's turn 4 ---
xeylo plays 3 Coppers.
xeylo buys a Great Hall.
(xeylo reshuffles.)
(xeylo draws: a Great Hall, an Estate, 2 Coppers, and an Ironworks.)

--- vica's turn 5 ---
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays an Ironworks.
... gaining an Ironworks.
... getting +1 action.
vica plays an Ironworks.
... gaining a Silver.
... getting +$1.
vica plays 2 Coppers.
vica buys a Great Hall.
(vica draws: 2 Estates and 3 Coppers.)

--- xeylo's turn 5 ---
xeylo plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
xeylo plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
xeylo plays an Ironworks.
... gaining a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
xeylo plays 4 Coppers.
xeylo buys a Conspirator.
(xeylo draws: an Estate, 2 Coppers, an Ironworks, and a Workshop.)

--- vica's turn 6 ---
vica plays 3 Coppers.
vica buys a Great Hall.
(vica reshuffles.)
(vica draws: a Great Hall, 3 Coppers, and an Ironworks.)

--- xeylo's turn 6 ---
xeylo plays an Ironworks.
... gaining a Conspirator.
... getting +1 action.
xeylo plays a Workshop.
... gaining a Conspirator.
xeylo plays 2 Coppers.
xeylo buys a Haven.
(xeylo reshuffles.)
(xeylo draws: an Estate, 2 Coppers, an Ironworks, and a Workshop.)

--- vica's turn 7 ---
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays an Ironworks.
... gaining a Silver.
... getting +$1.
vica plays 4 Coppers.
vica buys a Bazaar.
(vica draws: 2 Great Halls, 2 Estates, and an Ironworks.)

--- xeylo's turn 7 ---
xeylo plays an Ironworks.
... gaining an Ironworks.
... getting +1 action.
xeylo plays a Workshop.
... gaining a Conspirator.
xeylo plays 2 Coppers.
xeylo buys a Haven.
(xeylo draws: a Great Hall, 2 Conspirators, and 2 Coppers.)

--- vica's turn 8 ---
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays an Ironworks.
... gaining a Silver.
... getting +$1.
vica plays a Copper.
vica buys a Haven.
(vica draws: 2 Great Halls, a Silver, a Copper, and an Ironworks.)

--- xeylo's turn 8 ---
xeylo plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
xeylo plays a Haven.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
... setting aside a card.
xeylo plays a Conspirator.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action and +$2.
xeylo plays a Conspirator.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action and +$2.
xeylo plays an Ironworks.
... gaining a Conspirator.
... getting +1 action.
xeylo plays 2 Coppers.
xeylo buys a Tactician.
(xeylo draws: 2 Great Halls, a Conspirator, and 2 Coppers.)

--- vica's turn 9 ---
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays a Great Hall.
... (vica reshuffles.)
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays an Ironworks.
... gaining an Ironworks.
... getting +1 action.
vica plays an Ironworks.
... gaining a Conspirator.
... getting +1 action.
vica plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
vica buys a Conspirator.
(vica draws: a Great Hall, 2 Estates, and 2 Coppers.)

--- xeylo's turn 9 ---
xeylo picks up a card from a Haven.
xeylo plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
xeylo plays a Great Hall.
... (xeylo reshuffles.)
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
xeylo plays a Conspirator.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action and +$2.
xeylo plays 5 Coppers.
xeylo buys a Gold.
(xeylo draws: a Great Hall, a Conspirator, 2 Ironworks, and a Workshop.)

--- vica's turn 10 ---
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays 2 Coppers.
vica buys a Haven.
(vica draws: a Bazaar, a Haven, 2 Coppers, and a Great Hall.)

--- xeylo's turn 10 ---
xeylo plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
xeylo plays an Ironworks.
... gaining an Ironworks.
... getting +1 action.
xeylo plays an Ironworks.
... gaining a Conspirator.
... getting +1 action.
xeylo plays a Workshop.
... gaining a Conspirator.
(xeylo draws: a Haven, a Conspirator, 2 Estates, and a Copper.)

--- vica's turn 11 ---
vica plays a Bazaar.
... drawing 1 card and getting +2 actions and +$1.
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays an Ironworks.
... gaining an Ironworks.
... getting +1 action.
vica plays a Haven.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
... setting aside a card.
vica plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
vica buys a Duchy.
(vica reshuffles.)
(vica draws: a Great Hall, 2 Silvers, a Copper, and an Ironworks.)

--- xeylo's turn 11 ---
xeylo plays a Haven.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
... setting aside a card.
xeylo plays a Conspirator.
... getting +$2.
xeylo plays a Copper.
xeylo buys a Silver.
(xeylo reshuffles.)
(xeylo draws: a Tactician, 2 Conspirators, and 2 Coppers.)

--- vica's turn 12 ---
vica picks up a card from a Haven.
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays a Great Hall.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
vica plays an Ironworks.
... gaining an Ironworks.
... getting +1 action.
vica plays 2 Silvers and 2 Coppers.
vica buys a Conspirator.
(vica draws: a Great Hall, an Estate, 2 Coppers, and an Ironworks.)

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That's pretty short...

The shortest ever (serious) game I had was with a stranger. I ended the game on my 9th turn (17 turns total), buying out the Province Pile. King's Court + Bridge + Chapel + Laboratory does that to a game.
 
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Vic R
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I Eat Tables wrote:
That's pretty short...

The shortest ever (serious) game I had was with a stranger. I ended the game on my 9th turn (17 turns total), buying out the Province Pile. King's Court + Bridge + Chapel + Laboratory does that to a game.


Whoa! nine turns!.wow I knew that 12 is short but not the shortest ever, but as the says goes "dont let the truth ruin a good title", but I thought of 11 or 10 turns no less. In anycase I would like a more detailed explanation because a triple bridge is still 5 coin a province so you couldnt buy more than two at time dont you? and then with four or five province your money engine must suffer (I suppose your opponent buy one or two prov at max, because is quite difficult to buy provinces in the first 8 turns)
I suppouse the log was something like that:
turn 1 buy chapel
turn 2 buy bridge
turn 3 you chapel away all the states and one copper
turn 4 buy laboratory
turn 5 uses laboratory and buy king court
turn 6 uses chapel to trash copper? buy something of cost 4? silver?
turn 7 KC bridge and buy another laboratory? one prov? gold?
then you have only turns 8,9 to buy at least 6 provinces. It seems I missing something. Please tell me because I am quite intrigued
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Jason Weed
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vica8081 wrote:
I Eat Tables wrote:
That's pretty short...

The shortest ever (serious) game I had was with a stranger. I ended the game on my 9th turn (17 turns total), buying out the Province Pile. King's Court + Bridge + Chapel + Laboratory does that to a game.


Whoa! nine turns!.wow I knew that 12 is short but not the shortest ever, but as the says goes "dont let the truth ruin a good title", but I thought of 11 or 10 turns no less. In anycase I would like a more detailed explanation because a triple bridge is still 5 coin a province so you couldnt buy more than two at time dont you? and then with four or five province your money engine must suffer (I suppose your opponent buy one or two prov at max, because is quite difficult to buy provinces in the first 8 turns)
I suppouse the log was something like that:
turn 1 buy chapel
turn 2 buy bridge
turn 3 you chapel away all the states and one copper
turn 4 buy laboratory
turn 5 uses laboratory and buy king court
turn 6 uses chapel to trash copper? buy something of cost 4? silver?
turn 7 KC bridge and buy another laboratory? one prov? gold?
then you have only turns 8,9 to buy at least 6 provinces. It seems I missing something. Please tell me because I am quite intrigued


maybe other players are doing the same thing
 
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Andrew Hardin
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vica8081 wrote:
I suppose your opponent buy one or two prov at max, because is quite difficult to buy provinces in the first 8 turns


Your are begging the question with this premise.

As pointed out above you don't have to buy 6-7 Provinces if your opponents are buying their share. In many of the simulations using the basic Chapel strategy the minimum # of possible turns in the game is fairly close to 9 so I can see this happening with the benefit of the KC and Bridge.

- Lex
 
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Vic R
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I know that if your opponent does the same you only have to buy 4 provinces. My point is that to get 4 provinces in 9 turn you need perfect or almost perfect drawings in several turns (get rid of all states in turn 3, get the laboratory in the next turn you bought,etc.) and you can be lucky OK no problem, thats things happen all the time, but if you opponent is as lucky as you, something strange is happening. (you can get a full straight in poker but if your opponent get another in the same hand or you are in a movie or you are using a new deck without shuffling). For me that sounds more a theorethical game than a real game.

But I am not interested in that happen, that not happen, and silly discussion of little childrens. I would like to see how to buy 5 provinces in the 9 turns. (Considering that opponents plays same that you with same luck as you and have bought 3 provinces in 8 turns) You see is already difficult for me to think of how to buy 4 provinces in 9 turn to even consider that your oppponent bought the other 4 provinces in 8 turns and even in this case you should then buy at least one duchy or state not the last province because if you tie 24-24 your opponent wins (he played a round less)

So the question is at the end of turn 8 you had to have 3 provinces and buy two more in turn 9 (and end the game) is that possible? and how? I think is not because to buy two provinces at turn 9 you need 10 coin (with provinces at 5) so you need 1 or 2 gold (and the rest copper) but you cant buy gold earlier that turn 7 and in that turn you already need to buy a province (and two more in turn 8 to get the 3) so there is no time. Or is it? because silver is free if you KC a bridge and a couple of silver can be the answer. I really dont know and I would like to. (I am even tampering with the cards as I write this so I suppose Im going to have a puzzle solving weekend shake )

Any help or link is appreciated and by the way if 9 is the shortest play with province depleted what is the shortest play with colonies depleted or with 3 piles depleted. In the last case I think is no more than 10, changing conspirator for garden (two less cards to buy) and playing a bit more straightfoward (not duchy, not bazar, just end the game) but I want to solve the other puzzle first (and my wife wanted me to repair the table this weekend zombie bad luck to her I guess I have more importants thing to docool

 
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Umm... looks like I have to apologised. I remembered wrong, I was out one in turn count... I ended the game on turn 10:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110219-152117-ae7...

But let's see, hypothetically, can I end the game earlier using the same strategy?

I'm going to assume a 5/2 Split because my intuition says it's probably better... who knows, though?

So, notation: () - cards in hand (initially). [] - cards drawn on turn. Cards to the right are discards, cards to the left are the deck.

c - Copper
e - Estate
C - Chapel
L - Laboratory
B - Bridge
S - Silver
G - Gold
K - King's Court

1: eeecc(ccccc)
Buy L
2: (eeecc)cccccL
Buy C, shuffle giving:
3: ccccccL(ceeeC)
Trash 3e, c
4: [cc](ccccL)C
Play L. Buy G. Shuffle giving:
5: cc[cc](ccLCG)
trash 3c, Buy B. Shuffle and draw, giving:
6: [Bc](GLCcc)
Play B. Buy K. Shuffle and draw:
7: C[Bc](GLKcc)
Play L, K:B. Buy (with $9 & 3*B) K,B,B. Shuffle and draw:
8: cccG[BB](BLKKC)
Play L, K:K:(B,B,B). Buy out the Provinces.

So 8 turns is definitely do-able for 1 player. 7 turns... I dunno, possibly this can be made more efficient. Effectively, all you need to do to end the game is have a hand capable of playing 3 King's Courted Bridges (i.e. a hand with KKBBB in it and an action). So it's getting that as fast as possible that's key.

I'm going to do a 4/3 test in the same way, see what happens. I think there's two possible openers that would make sense: S,B or B,C

1: eeccc(ecccc)
Buy B
2: (eeccc)eccccB
Buy S. Shuffle and get:
3: cceeecc(BSccc)
Buy K, c
4: cc(eeecc)BScccKc
Buy c Shuffle and get:
5: eeeccccccc(SBKcc)
Play K:B. Buy (with 7, costs -3) K,B,B
6: eeecc(ccccc)SBKccKBB
Pass
7: (eeecc)cccccSBKccKBB
Pass. Shuffle and get:
8: eeecccccccScc(BKKBB)
Play K:K:(B,B,B). Buy all 8 Provinces.

I thought this was pretty amusing, it needs to buy extra junk though so it can cleanly empty the deck during the third time through the deck, and hence draw KKBBB.
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Dave Goldthorpe
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Some pretty fast games turn up when both players take council rooms, bishops, vaults, etc which help the opponent. Games can accelerate surprisingly fast since all the bad draws get turned into good draws.

Quote:
You see is already difficult for me to think of how to buy 4 provinces in 9 turn to even consider that your oppponent bought the other 4 provinces in 8 turns and even in this case you should then buy at least one duchy or state not the last province because if you tie 24-24 your opponent wins (he played a round less)


There are also games where a player who is in the lead uses a salvager to trash provinces then buy more. Apprentices can trash provinces to draw enough cards to buy two more provinces. This sort of play can exhaust the province stack very quickly.
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Vic R
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I Eat Tables wrote:
Umm... looks like I have to apologised. I remembered wrong, I was out one in turn count... I ended the game on turn 10:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110219-152117-ae7...

But let's see, hypothetically, can I end the game earlier using the same strategy?

I'm going to assume a 5/2 Split because my intuition says it's probably better... who knows, though?

So, notation: () - cards in hand (initially). [] - cards drawn on turn. Cards to the right are discards, cards to the left are the deck.

c - Copper
e - Estate
C - Chapel
L - Laboratory
B - Bridge
S - Silver
G - Gold
K - King's Court

1: eeecc(ccccc)
Buy L
2: (eeecc)cccccL
Buy C, shuffle giving:
3: ccccccL(ceeeC)
Trash 3e, c
4: [cc](ccccL)C
Play L. Buy G. Shuffle giving:
5: cc[cc](ccLCG)
trash 3c, Buy B. Shuffle and draw, giving:
6: [Bc](GLCcc)
Play B. Buy K. Shuffle and draw:
7: C[Bc](GLKcc)
Play L, K:B. Buy (with $9 & 3*B) K,B,B. Shuffle and draw:
8: cccG[BB](BLKKC)
Play L, KK(B,B,B). Buy out the Provinces.

So 8 turns is definitely do-able for 1 player. 7 turns... I dunno, possibly this can be made more efficient. Effectively, all you need to do to end the game is have a hand capable of playing 3 King's Courted Bridges (i.e. a hand with KKBBB in it and an action). So it's getting that as fast as possible that's key.

I'm going to do a 4/3 test in the same way, see what happens. I think there's two possible openers that would make sense: S,B or B,C

1: eeccc(ecccc)
Buy B
2: (eeccc)eccccB
Buy S. Shuffle and get:
3: cceeecc(BSccc)
Buy K, c
4: cc(eeecc)BScccKc
Buy c Shuffle and get:
5: eeeccccccc(SBKcc)
Play K:B. Buy (with 7, costs -3) K,B,B
6: eeecc(ccccc)SBKccKBB
Pass
7: (eeecc)cccccSBKccKBB
Pass. Shuffle and get:
8: eeecccccccScc(BKKBB)
Play KK(B,B,B). Buy all 8 Provinces.

I thought this was pretty amusing, it needs to buy extra junk though so it can cleanly empty the deck during the third time through the deck, and hence draw KKBBB.



Thanks a lot for the explanation. Now I realized that I never could get the answer by myself, because I never thought in double KK and buy all the prov at the same time (I thought in KK but I calculated to get the second K in turn 8 and IMO it was too late to have sense so I discarded the idea (in my ignorance).
In my defense I am not a chapel player, I try to trash states and copper as everybody else but I never played with a 5 card deck so I really couldnt get the really optimum strategy. Now that I see the steps it made a lot of sense and in fact is not so difficult to get the shuffle right or almost right so with king court, bridge and chapel is the optimum strategy hands down.

By the way Im happy that you bought all the province without any help from your opponent, at least my initial hypothesis that if your game was real your opponent bought 1 or 2 prov at max was true.

I will try to use your strategy to depleted colonies instead province (I know that if you can win buying 8 provinces and instead buy platinum/gold or whatever in order to depleted colonies you are not doing optimal moves, but I would like to see how many more turns are required to depleted colonies, and I think they are not many more, maybe only 2 more)

One thing is for sure King Court have made chapel strategy a lot of stronger, IMHO
 
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Steven Metzger
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About a year ago I had a game on BSW that took less than 2 minutes.

True story.

(I won 43-28)
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Jack Rudd
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metzgerism wrote:
About a year ago I had a game on BSW that took less than 2 minutes.


I'm impressed. Normally BSW just about manages to resolve a single card in less than 2 minutes.
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Vic R
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Ok I think I have the shortest game ever, just 14 turn (7+7) in three piles depleted. The only needed cards are ironworks, islands and great halls.

The layout is this: S Silver C Copper E Estates I Ironworks D Island H Great Halls

1 turn CCCEE buy silver

2 turn CCCCE buy ironworks

3 turn I,S,C,C,E use ironworks to get island, you obtain E (as extra card) buy ironworks

4 turn C,C,C,C,E buy ironworks

5 turn I,I,I,C,E, use three ironworks to get 3 island and obtain C,C,C buy ironworks

6 turn S,C,C,E,E buy ironworks

7 turn F,F,F,C,I get three H obtain S,E,E (or other combination of two coin) and buy other H (Great Halls depleted)

The idea is you and your opponent doing the same so only need to get 4 D, 4 H and 5 I to depleted the three piles. There are a lot of combinations which end in 7 turns this is only one of them so I think is really not so difficult to get it right (although you and you opponent must get it right at the same time what it usually proves more difficult) I dont think you can get fastest than that can you? (is really only one turn faster than the strategy provided by "I Eat Tables" so I dont know if can be beaten)

Also this strategy to work only need three card in play same as his former strategy (Bridge, chapel and king court). There is another which only need two? Im close to end the game in 7 turns with just ironworks, Island (or great hall) and any card of cost two, but Im one card short

any thoughts?

Edit: changed Fundition for Ironworks (is a missup because in the spanish version the name of the card is Fundicion) I also I have started a new thread in the strategy folder
 
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Yeah, what's Fundition? Do you mean Ironworks?
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