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Subject: General question about evade & specific question about Scenario 5b rss

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Alan Goodrich
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Playing through The Green Eyed Boy scenario last night, we ran into a few questions.

1) When making an evade check, you do so whenever during your turn you enter a space with a monster - not just if you start your turn in the space with a monster? So if I move into a space with a monster, I have to do an evade check to finish my turn (another move + an action) - correct? This seems thematically correct, but the example in the rulebook uses the "evade at start of turn" option.

2) Specific to Scenario 5b:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
When an investigator opens the "lock" on the freezer, and subsequently dies, does the unlocking/dying count for the objective ("an investigator enters the freezer") or does a 2nd investigator have to enter the now-lock-free freezer? We played it that the unlocking & dying did not count as "entering" the freezer, thus the game continued (until a 2nd investigator entered the freezer, at which point Ithaqua was released and the game ended).
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Mark Englehart
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Read rules and played for the first time yesterday.

"Evade" allows you to do something other than Fight when in the same space as a Monster. You do not need to Evade when you walk into the room with the Monster. You would need to Evade if you want to pick up a card or move out of the space with a Monster.

You do need to make a Horror check when you move into a room with a Monster.

Opening a Lock card is part of a Movement step. Your Investigator is trying to move through a door. To complete the move you need to pass the check on the lock card. Fail and you've used your Move step and stay where you were. Succeed and you move into the space in the new room.
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Jeff Edgar
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My interpretation would be that you do not have to make the evade check when you first enter the space, only the horror check. Once you are in the same space as the monster, however, you must make one evade check if you are going to do anything else other then attack a monster (not necessarily the monster you are in the same space as). Perhaps it can be thematically explained as encountering a monster as you are moving through the house and drawing its awareness to you. Since you ran into the monster you have the chance to attack it before it can try to attack you, thus causing you to evade. If you try to just move past it though, you have missed your opportunity and have to dodge whatever the monster throws at you.
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Federico Galeotti
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Answer to the specific scenario 5b:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I would guess that since the "lock" in question (Opening the Gate) doesn't impede the movement as other lock cards do (i.e. Jammed Door or others), it should count as if an investigator entered the freezer and thus the Keeper wins.
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Seth Pontiff
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FYI...an investigator needs to do a horror check when entering a room where there is a monster present. An evade check is done when trying to perform a non-attack action while a monster is on the same space as you. Horror checks are based on rooms while evade checks are based on spaces.
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Alan Goodrich
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
FYI...an investigator needs to do a horror check when entering a room where there is a monster present. An evade check is done when trying to perform a non-attack action while a monster is on the same space as you. Horror checks are based on rooms while evade checks are based on spaces.


Thanks for the replies, everyone, but I have no issue with understanding how horror checks work.

My question about evade checks is: do you do them a) at any time during your turn during which you find yourself on a space with a monster, and have more you want to do that turn (further move/action) OR b) do you only do evade checks if you start your turn in a space with a monster?

Other than that, I fully understand how to do an evade check and/or horror check.
 
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Alan Goodrich
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vetinari7878 wrote:
Answer to the specific scenario 5b:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I would guess that since the "lock" in question (Opening the Gate) doesn't impede the movement as other lock cards do (i.e. Jammed Door or others), it should count as if an investigator entered the freezer and thus the Keeper wins.


Thanks - that is my gut feeling too, but I don't like the way it plays out. Namely
Spoiler (click to reveal)
unless the investigators have had the first event card, there is no way for them to even suspect that the freezer will end the game. So in the interest of fairness, I ruled that a 2nd investigator had to enter the freezer - by that time, the 1st event is more than likely out, and the other investigators have been "warned" about the location through the death of their colleague. If they still persist in investigating the freezer further, they will lose. Otherwise, it seems like a pretty lame and quick end to the scenario.
 
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Milan Mašát
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cayluster wrote:
My question about evade checks is: do you do them a) at any time during your turn during which you find yourself on a space with a monster, and have more you want to do that turn (further move/action) OR b) do you only do evade checks if you start your turn in a space with a monster?

Other than that, I fully understand how to do an evade check and/or horror check.


from rules:
"An investigator must make an evade test against every monster in his space before moving or performing non-attack actions."

There is not anything about a start of a turn. So roll when in position and doing anything but attack.

from rules:
"After having attempted to evade a monster, the investigator may freely move and take actions without having to try to evade the same monster that turn."

So only one roll per turn, whether successful or not.
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Mariano Rico
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cayluster wrote:

My question about evade checks is: do you do them a) at any time during your turn during which you find yourself on a space with a monster, and have more you want to do that turn (further move/action) OR b) do you only do evade checks if you start your turn in a space with a monster?


I am pretty sure is a). There is no reference in the rules about the test being made at any specific moment of the turn, just once you take the Action or decide to move and you happen to be in a monster space.
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Kevin C.
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Quote:
My question about evade checks is: do you do them a) at any time during your turn during which you find yourself on a space with a monster, and have more you want to do that turn (further move/action) OR b) do you only do evade checks if you start your turn in a space with a monster?


Both.

If you begin your turn in the same space as a monster and wish to do anything other than attack it (move away, explore, hide, etc.), you make an evade check. Whether you pass it or not, you are then free to do as you wish. (The downside to failing is that the Keeper will most likely have the monster damage you.)

If you move into a space with a monster during your turn and don’t wish to attack but wish to do something else in that space (move through it, explore, etc.), you make an evade check for that monster.

After reading a number of these rules questions, I’m coming to believe that much of the confusion stems from trying to make MoM more “thematic” than it really is. In other words, the rulebook clearly states something as a rule, but it doesn’t fit one’s idea of “proper” theme, so a question arises.

First and foremost, this is an abstract game of resource management and deduction. Yes, the trappings of the Mythos are cool and you can house rule anything you like however you like. Still, there are fairly clear parameters and boundaries to how the designer thinks the game “should” be played. As I say, you can play this way or not, but I’m not sure these rules are that unclear.

Kevin
 
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Alan Goodrich
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natsean wrote:
Quote:
My question about evade checks is: do you do them a) at any time during your turn during which you find yourself on a space with a monster, and have more you want to do that turn (further move/action) OR b) do you only do evade checks if you start your turn in a space with a monster?


Both.

If you begin your turn in the same space as a monster and wish to do anything other than attack it (move away, explore, hide, etc.), you make an evade check. Whether you pass it or not, you are then free to do as you wish. (The downside to failing is that the Keeper will most likely have the monster damage you.)

If you move into a space with a monster during your turn and don’t wish to attack but wish to do something else in that space (move through it, explore, etc.), you make an evade check for that monster.

After reading a number of these rules questions, I’m coming to believe that much of the confusion stems from trying to make MoM more “thematic” than it really is. In other words, the rulebook clearly states something as a rule, but it doesn’t fit one’s idea of “proper” theme, so a question arises.

First and foremost, this is an abstract game of resource management and deduction. Yes, the trappings of the Mythos are cool and you can house rule anything you like however you like. Still, there are fairly clear parameters and boundaries to how the designer thinks the game “should” be played. As I say, you can play this way or not, but I’m not sure these rules are that unclear.

Kevin


What I find confusing is that the Evade rules state: "An investigator must make an evade test against every monster in his space before moving or perform non-attack actions." This could mean "before moving (at any point in your turn)" or "before moving (at the beginning of your turn)." The provided example only shows an example of an evade check made at the beginning of a turn, so I couldn't dispel my question with recourse to an example.

During play, I ruled in the way everyone else has indicated - at any point in the turn when you entered a monster's space for purpose other than to attack, you do an evade check. I was only asking here to be certain my reading was correct. I don't see why the question needs to be criticized with reference to house-ruling anything, as I wasn't house-ruling, but simply clarifying proper play. Furthermore, though, playing the other way (checking only at the start of the turn) is less thematic, so I'm not sure why I deserve being singled out as a example of something I'm not even proposing.
 
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Seth Pontiff
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The next question is now this. Do you have to do an evade check when your investigator does nothing (neither move nor attack)? Does doing nothing count as a non-attack action?
 
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Tim Kelly
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
The next question is now this. Do you have to do an evade check when your investigator does nothing (neither move nor attack)? Does doing nothing count as a non-attack action?

I'd say "no".
TK
 
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Kevin C.
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Quote:
What I find confusing is that the Evade rules state: "An investigator must make an evade test against every monster in his space before moving or perform non-attack actions." This could mean "before moving (at any point in your turn)" or "before moving (at the beginning of your turn)." The provided example only shows an example of an evade check made at the beginning of a turn, so I couldn't dispel my question with recourse to an example.


I didn’t mean to single you out…as I said, I’ve had this feeling from a number of threads.

I guess I just saw the rule more clearly than you do and you said this:

Quote:
So if I move into a space with a monster, I have to do an evade check to finish my turn (another move + an action) - correct? This seems thematically correct, but the example in the rulebook uses the "evade at start of turn" option.


So, I thought you were saying, “The theme seems to support this interpretation, but the rulebook seems to be saying something else.” In my view, the rulebook was quite clear, so I was confused as to why you would take refuge in the theme for a “correct” view.

The rule simply seemed to be covering all aspects of the turn: movement & non-combat actions whenever they occurred. I just didn’t see the “beginning of turn” limitation since you can move at any point in your turn, not just the beginning.. (Therefore, why would “before moving” be limited to the beginning of the your turn? It seems you would have to read something more into it to see it this way.)

I figured that was just the arbitrary example they used and thought it superfluous to include others.

At any rate, I didn’t mean to offend or single you out. Happy Gaming.

Kevin


 
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