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Subject: Anyone have Grand Campaign rules now that the Russians are out? rss

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Ray Gaer
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Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has thought about having a Grand Campaign for the European Theatre, or Africa, or the Russian Front? I know that a campaign was designed for Normandy, but with so many map boards and different nationalities I was thinking that it would be fun to either link official or homebrew scenarios for some of these other theaters.

This may be just me, but when I played Squad Leader a long time ago I designed simple rules for a Grand Campaign that didn't represent exact battles of WWII but was more of a on-going battle with breaks for reinforcements. As the battlefield tide moved I would add or subtract map boards. What I wanted to recreate was the German high tide feeling and the desperate battle in the end, or the Allied holding action and then their ultimate victory. Am I the only one who likes desperate battles to the end?

Anyone ever done such a thing with TOI or Squad Leader? Just curious.

See you on the battlefield!

Raygun1966
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John Di Ponio
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I seem to recall a game system that attempted that. I know Mem44 had something to that extent.
It would be cool to create something. I would think you would want to enable troop rewards for surviving battles. Maybe some type of promotion allowing for more steadfast troops in battle.
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Ray Gaer
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Yes, those are good to include. I think I'm going to research to see what mechanics are needed by looking at what is currently out and then I'll post those concepts here so we can debate their inclusion into a campaign. I would like to keep a campaign system that is not too complicated but is still complicated enough to be on par with the TOI game system.

 
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Sean Conroy
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You could do something like the PC game Blitzkrieg. Have players choose a mission from, say, a selection of 2 or 3 distinct missions, each with their own objectives. Then work the result into the "big picture."

Example: Opening weeks of Barbarossa. The German player has the option of participating in the drive toward Stalingrad, Moscow or Leningrad. Then play a series of battles to simulate the drive forward.

Then after the completion of the "campaign" you could do a one of two things. Work out a way to award the Germans victory or defeat (could even be a simple W:L ratio = tactical, minor, major victories or defeat) or you could have a final master objective ("boss fight" in video game terms). Your successes and failures could factor into just how prepared you are for this "final battle."

If the Germans win then victory is ensured on this front. If they fail, then the spearhead has been blunted, try again, with new missions!!

Grandiose I know but it would be sweet.
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Hugh J Jones
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It would be nice to see some new campaigns. I did enjoy the Normandy campaign, as I was playing the Americans I got attached to my units especially as they became veteran, hardened and elite (though only two squad bases improved up to Elite by the end of the campaign :-P my squad turn over rate was like %85 do to casualties). You end up having to make more decisions bases on the overall campaign and not just the scenario at hand.

I remember coming to the conclusion on one battle that I messed up so bad the best thing I could do was to hold out the clock and allow a German victory. I could have won but would of lost so many of my veteran squads I'd be crippled for the rest of the campaign with nothing but green replacements.
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Eduardo Regatieri
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Man, I can't believe that I'd encounter a topic like this TODAY. I lost 2 nights already trying to design a campaign for my ToI. I've just bought 25 new types of 10mm tanks miniatures to provide some difference in enviroment and aquired another copy of ToI too.

I'm making copies of my ToI tanks too using resin and RTV Rubber and it was just great. The 25 new tanks includes 5 italian and 4 japanese tanks. I'm about to make a campaign, or some sort of, with 7 factions: USA (with 5 newer tanks), British (with 5 newer tanks), German (7 tanks, including existing and new ones), Elite Panzer (6 tanks, including existing and new ones), Italy (5 newer tanks) and Japan (4 newer tanks).

Idea 1 - Ok, about the mechanics, first I'm trying to photoshopping the maps provide in ToI + Expansions to make little maps. That means that in one ToI board size you should have little hexes able to be occupied for just 1 unit. That can make a great variety of a long campaign running in just one big scenario.

Idea 2 - Other option is to play 2 or 3 scenarios at the same time. It can be over the Africa scenarios, Western and Eastern front scenarios at same time. Playing at same time can bring you lots of varieties in the game. Other good point is that you and your friends will be advancing a campaign long steps with one night game and so it can be over sooner than expected.

Idea 3 - Using and Europe/World map plus the point buy system can make a great campaign system. The problem would be reaching the balance point of the game. So, I was thinking in doing a great Campaign Book providing some scenarios, divided in the years and situations, for example 1939-40-41 / 1942-43 / 1944-45 group of scenarios. Those would include some scenarios, which the team players should select which scenarios to play, that would grant Final Victory Points after X won scenarios played. Parallel to it, players would engage great scenarios to gain Command Points to buy new units for the next scenarios.

Idea 4 - I was thinking of using Opel Blitz trucks to be the providing Command Points for the scenarios, and that the loss of one of those should make a large difference during the campaign in providing resources.


But, a important thing to think is the duration of a single scenario, including setup time and everything. So, you must gain some time on that providing already made scenarios, troops fixed already on bases, and, my favorite thing, change some advanced and confusing game rules that can lose all the fun just trying to remember them (Idea 5 - personally I've made new rules to counter game time, using Memoir card's like, ignoring some actions from ToI, worked pretty well, but it's another topic).


Idea 6 -I was thinking about another change that would lose some downtime in setup was applying LOS to units. In setup, just put infantry bases in every unit you have. In the holders of the base, you use one-face unit indicators facing to the player who own it and that will only be revealed when the enemy sees it. When it does, you mount the unit if infantry or replace with a tank. That can bring newer desperate tactics and fun to the game, but the downtime cutted is the most important point.


This topic inspired me in continuing planning this campaign. Some map experiment to be printed in A4 papers and the hidden units thing are in under development. Any new ideas (provided to my lost sleeping night) I will hit them here. Waiting for some new ideas.
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Ray Gaer
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Thank you everyone for chiming in on the thread.

I like what TracerBullet said about choosing a theatre with a set of scenarios that could be linked.

I also like Eduardo's Idea 2 "So, I was thinking in doing a great Campaign Book providing some scenarios, divided in the years and situations, for example 1939-40-41 / 1942-43 / 1944-45 group of scenarios."
Perhaps the scenarios could be grouped by years and you could carry points and troops from year to year as you progress. Perhaps the defenders could be static but the size and make up of your forces would depend on what you have available in resources. The major task is grouping all of the available scenarios and coming up with a system for to achieve victory points. Eventually, you would have to have a few different theatre fronts and the major decisions would be how your going to allocate your forces. Maybe you can have a different Grand Campaign for each nationality much like the Normandy campaign highlighted a particular theatre and group.

There's a lot to think about here and a lot of borrowing ideas from others. This sounds like a good project.

I just bought more Germans from ebay so I could have at least two fronts if I decided to use two maps at the same time. It's great to finally find a game that is so versatile.
 
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bill jaffe
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Hey all good idea's here so far. the idea of a grand Campaign is easy to see but the nuts and bolts will take work. I think the Normandy campaign just scratched the surface

skinsfan
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Eduardo Regatieri
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I think I've got what we need. Gimme this week to work on this project. It will be more a less like that:

There will be 3 phases, Phase One as 1939-41, Phase Two as 1942-43 and finally Phase Three 1944-45.

On each Phase there will be a set of scenarios to be chosen and played.

For example, on Phase One, players will select scenarios indicated by the year and real history situation, for example the German advance on Poland, Belgium, the Italian advance on Greece, British defend on Dunkirk / Netherlands (I don't remember, will study more).

So, there will be kind of 3 maps to the Ally team to select from and 3 for the German Team on each phase. Winning the maps will grant the team NEW UNITS to be using on a FINAL MAP, in the end of the three phases.

Those 3 maps will be indicated for its DIFFICULTY: Vantaged map (easy), Balanced map (Medium) and Disvantaged map (Hard). The harder the map selected, more and better units will be provided for the player in the last scenario. Losing a scenario will grant the player a very little assistance for the final map.

Finally, in the last Final Scenario, players won't be provided with any units. Instead, players will battle on a POINT BUY System scenario. Command Points will be given to players PLUS the new units gained through the victories over the campaign. The final map will be a Last Man Standing Scenario. The one who eliminate the other team from the board will win the campaign.

I just wanted to use the existing scenarios from the book or even the Fan-Made Scenarios, changing some starting units and strategic cards to be used. For this, I'll need to read some ratings made by player on each map to set the maps as Balanced or not.

Any ideas or suggestions are welcome. I'll be trying after the Fury of the Bear come (will be needed).
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Ray Gaer
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Beautiful! Your system is simple and will not take a lot of book keeping along the way and incorporates many of the user made resources developed either at Boardgamegeek or at Fantasy Flight. I like the use of having a point buying system for the final maps. How do you feel about having a very small amount of points that a player receives in each year to show a historical shift of power. For instance, the Axis player starts with 200 resource points to be used in phase one, 100 points in phase 2, and 50 points in phase 3. Whereas, the Allied player starts with 50, then 100, and lastly with 200. Those resource buy points are just to illustrate the system and not hard numbers.

Geekgold coming your way!!! I think we will all be looking forward to seeing how this develops.
 
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Eduardo Regatieri
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Thanks for the coins!

The idea of the shifting powers sounds like a good idea, but I think this could unbalance a little the campaign.

Tonight I'll be doing some research of WWII battles and viewing some maps from the ToI boxes. I'm going to start a table with the unit's costs and a possible squad standarization using icons to identify the specific set to be mounted (to ease the reinforcements received on each victory).

I'll be adding new units to the campaign too, and will be providing their stats and tokens for printing (like Conflict of Heroes tokens, but if you prefer, you can aquire them at Pendraken 10mm miniatures store like I did, or just "sell" them In-Game to buy existing ToI's units). The new units will be some Nebelwerfer, Rocket Half-tracks, Amphibious tanks, Priests, Flak Panzers, Italian Flamethrowers, Stuarts, M3 Lee, Katyusha, and other tactical/destroyer vehicles.

The Pacific War will be included. The axis player can play as the Japanese faction in some maps, and as the Italians on others. Some people won't like this kind of changes, but I'll provide a "Clean" way of game just using the original ToI boxes, letting the changed versions for who have printed the new tanks and maps.

First I'll start doing just like I said in my previously topic, to adjust the campaign system. If it works, the next step is doing a global campaign including everything that was said here.

I'll be asking for some beta testers along the way, adjusting the map settings, costs and prizes over the maps. And sure, new ideas are always welcome.
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