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Arkham Horror: Miskatonic Horror Expansion» Forums » General

Subject: How will this affect card dilution? rss

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Phil Tegg
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Does anybody know if FFG plan to address card dilution in this? Because if they are trying to make this an expansion that most people can buy then they might just make all of the mythos cards compatible with the base game - gates may never be likely to open in Dunwich or Innsmouth again! Really hope they are going to do new mythos cards specifically for each expansion.
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JH
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Not sure if they'll address it in the expansion, but when my decks got too diluted after five expansions I stripped out the expansion cards — now I pick and choose when I'm making the Location decks, and/or shuffle cards with less common effects into the top half of the Mythos deck.
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Jamie Vantries
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I thought a big part of this expansion was to address the dilution problem?
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Tibs
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Burnham wrote:
I thought a big part of this expansion was to address the dilution problem?

Somehow, I doubt it. It's supposed to add stuff to expansions, but that doesn't necessarily mean to counter dilution.

I'm guessing that it will add to dilution the same as any expansion, and that I'll have to update my anti-dilution algorithms.
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Phil Tegg
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kungfro wrote:
Burnham wrote:
I thought a big part of this expansion was to address the dilution problem?

Somehow, I doubt it. It's supposed to add stuff to expansions, but that doesn't necessarily mean to counter dilution.

I'm guessing that it will add to dilution the same as any expansion, and that I'll have to update my anti-dilution algorithms.



The contents are specifically listed as containing Mythos cards for the Arkham Horror base game. So more dilution then.

I am excited about this expansion, but think that surely with an expansion of this type they could at least attempt to address this issue?

Also, why not throw in printed versions of their online heralds?

Tibs:
I am going to give your anti-dilution algorithm a whirl at the weekend! I've previously been splitting the mythos decks and rolling a D20.

But we shouldn't have to take these measures! IMHO, FFG should issue some sort of edict if they aren't going to address it with Miskatonic. Oh well...
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JH
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I guess I don't get what there is for FFG to address regarding card dilution. All the expansions have added cards — if you're using them all at once, then yeah, you're facing card dilution. An all-card expansion isn't really going to solve that problem, whatever it might say in the rules. If you don't want swollen decks of cards, pare them down; if you want to emphasize a particular expansion, shuffle its cards into the top half of the Mythos or Other World decks.
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Nick Bolton
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I'm pretty sure dilution will be addressed to some extent otherwise I'm not sure why there would be "more act cards" included.

I'm not expecting this set to solve all dilution issues and don't think that this is the purpose of the expansion.

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JH
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nickbolton wrote:
I'm pretty sure dilution will be addressed to some extent otherwise I'm not sure why there would be "more act cards" included.

I'd imagine that for something like Act cards you would swap out the whole set or pick three from the full stack for the game.

Twilight Imperium: Shattered Empire does a similar thing with its strategy cards — you can pick and choose between new and old ones for a custom game in many cases, but there are certain cards you have to use with some variants.
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Phil Tegg
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Sarcasmorator wrote:
I guess I don't get what there is for FFG to address regarding card dilution. All the expansions have added cards — if you're using them all at once, then yeah, you're facing card dilution. An all-card expansion isn't really going to solve that problem, whatever it might say in the rules. If you don't want swollen decks of cards, pare them down; if you want to emphasize a particular expansion, shuffle its cards into the top half of the Mythos or Other World decks.


Obviously adding cards will remove the liklihood of any particular card being drawn. This is unavoidable. I'm talking about the dilution of mythos mechanics, such as the opening of a gate in Innsmouth. With all of the small expansions and Innsmouth added, the probability of a gate opening in Innsmouth is only about 40% of what it would be playing with just Innsmouth and the base game. Adding specific mythos cards for each expansion - rather than just for the base game - would help fix this. But it looks like FFG are just going to add another boat load of cards to open gates in Arkham, since that's the one AH product that every AH fan has.

Hope I'm wrong.
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JH
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While I do agree it would be nice to have more Mythos cards for each of the larger expansions for the sake of additional variety, I maintain that the problem of dilution has an easy fix that requires no additional cards.

I've personally found dilution to be a greater problem in the item and spell decks — it's all the harder to draw an Elder Sign when you've added a few expansions' worth of merchandise, and the cuts aren't as easy to make; I took out tasks and missions, but even that didn't make a huge difference.
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Rauli Kettunen
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Sarcasmorator wrote:
I've personally found dilution to be a greater problem in the item and spell decks — it's all the harder to draw an Elder Sign when you've added a few expansions' worth of merchandise, and the cuts aren't as easy to make; I took out tasks and missions, but even that didn't make a huge difference.


I think you used the wrong word there, less frequent Elder Signs aren't a "problem", they are a must, a blessing, to keep the game from being too easy cool . I can usually bear 1 ES, but 2+ ES in a game = too easy. Thus, more cards the Unique Item deck has in relation to the number of Elder Signs, better in my book (my current ratio is 1 Elder Sign in 24.5 cards). I know from experience I can seal 8 gates (6 + 2 gate bursts) all with Clues to win, so not seeing any ES just makes me work that much harder on getting the win, resulting in a more enjoyable victory, should it happen.
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JH
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My wife doesn't have a lot of fun if she's losing too badly, and Elder Signs can help mitigate that in this game, so no, I didn't use the wrong word! But I get your point.
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Bern Harkins
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Not to abuse a post mortem equine, but my solution to the dilution problem remains the same; don't dilute.
One (or at most two) expansions for the Mythos and Other World decks, along with the base game cards, allows plenty of activity on the expansion boards.
Hopefully, in addition to the new Base Game Mythos cards, MH will contain Mythos cards for the expansion boards to keep those proportions the same.
Deck sorting is a bit tedious, but not that involved and well worth the effort.
As far as the small investigator decks go, I agree with Dam; the more the merrier. The drawing of an Elder Sign should be an event, not an entitlement.
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The Spleen of Morbius
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Radulla wrote:
The drawing of an Elder Sign should be an event, not an entitlement.


HA! Elder signs are a privilege not a right!
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Tibs
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DoctorDR wrote:
Radulla wrote:
The drawing of an Elder Sign should be an event, not an entitlement.

HA! Elder signs are a privilege not a right!

I think those ideas are the same thing.
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Adam Mitchell
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Given what was written in the announcement for Miskatonic Horror, I think we can be VERY confident that this expansion will address dilution: "With nearly 450 new cards, Miskatonic Horror adds new Mythos and Location cards for Dunwich, Kingsport, and Innsmouth, as well as new cards for Gates, Epic Battles, Relationships, Injuries, Madness, Skills, Blights, and much more" (bold added).whistle

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Phil Tegg
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And yet if you read the point by point description then it implies that this isn't the case:

With nearly 450 new cards, Miskatonic Horror includes:

• New Skill, Gate, and Mythos cards for the Arkham Horror base game.

• New Injury, Madness, Dunwich Location, and Dunwich Horror cards for Dunwich Horror, as well as an all new Dunwich Horror Herald sheet.

• New Kingsport Location, Epic Battle, Blessings of Noden, and Visions of Hypnos cards for Kingsport Horror.

• New Innsmouth Location and Innsmouth Look cards for Innsmouth Horror.

Note that it only specifically lists the base game as having mythos cards added, and the big-board expansions as having new location cards.

Hence my doomed quest for clarity!
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Tibs
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I don't think anything has been done to counter dilution. Even if there are new Innsmouth and Dunwich gate locations (which I doubt), you would need a unbelievable number of them to come out close to the probabilities of using those expansions by themselves.

My money's on continued fan-driven anti-dilution measures.
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Bern Harkins
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kungfro wrote:
My money's on continued fan-driven anti-dilution measures.


There's MONEY in that? Tibs, you entrepreneur, you...
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Tibs
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I have about 100,000 internet-dollars.
 
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The Spleen of Morbius
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kungfro wrote:
DoctorDR wrote:
Radulla wrote:
The drawing of an Elder Sign should be an event, not an entitlement.

HA! Elder signs are a privilege not a right!

I think those ideas are the same thing.


Yeah, they are... I was supporting his comment with a rephrase, not selling a cheap knock off.
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Tibs
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DoctorDR wrote:
kungfro wrote:
DoctorDR wrote:
Radulla wrote:
The drawing of an Elder Sign should be an event, not an entitlement.

HA! Elder signs are a privilege not a right!

I think those ideas are the same thing.


Yeah, they are... I was supporting his comment with a rephrase, not selling a cheap knock off.

I concur. I'm promoting your remark with an alternative wording. But not an unoriginal rehash!

arrrh
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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2016

This is a link showing some of the new injury/madness cards and how their mechanics will work.

Given that some of these cards will count as preexisting injury/madness cards for purposes of being devoured, it is pretty clear that the designers are at least thinking about the dilution issue with this new expansion.
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Tibs
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grimfaery wrote:
Given that some of these cards will count as preexisting injury/madness cards for purposes of being devoured, it is pretty clear that the designers are at least thinking about the dilution issue with this new expansion.

I'm going to say that it's not very clear, and the Injury/Madness preview is not good evidence. So far it looks like this expansion intends to "expand" the material provided by each expansion. Injury and Madness cards will be made more deadly, but they were never diluted in the first place because they aren't mixed into another deck.

This is probably just a "something for everyone" expansion and I will be very surprised if any of the cards take action against inter-expansion dilution.
 
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Nick Bolton
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grimfaery wrote:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2016

This is a link showing some of the new injury/madness cards and how their mechanics will work.

Given that some of these cards will count as preexisting injury/madness cards for purposes of being devoured, it is pretty clear that the designers are at least thinking about the dilution issue with this new expansion.


Yes alongside the new act cards and the revisions to the Curse expansion (the whisperer token etc) its now becoming clearer that dilution is being addressed by this and forthcoming expansions.

Edit: for spelling
 
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