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Subject: Hero with the Highest attack value? rss

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Aaron Hanson
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Hi guys,

The Battle Effect on The Bloodless (Abyssal*Thunderspawn) says,
"Battle: Destroy the Hero with the highest Total Attack Value."

Does the Total Attack Value of a Hero include Attacks from both the Hero and his Weapon,or Attacks from the Hero without his Weapon? What about food or spells?

What if two heroes are tied?

I cannot seem to find an answer to this question. Any thoughts?
 
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Andy Pelton
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Scubatoad wrote:
Hi guys,

The Battle Effect on The Bloodless (Abyssal*Thunderspawn) says,
"Battle: Destroy the Hero with the highest Total Attack Value."

Does the Total Attack Value of a Hero include Attacks from both the Hero and his Weapon,or Attacks from the Hero without his Weapon? What about food or spells?


As it does have the word total in the effect, we play this to include all weapons attached and all effects that are played on that hero that increase the final attack value.

i.e. a Drunari Gypsy has Attack + 3 with a Warhammer Attack + 3, A Feast has been played Attack +1 and Battle Fury is played as well giving Attack +1

So the Drunari Gypsy has a Total Attack of 8, if this the highest he is Destroyed.

Scubatoad wrote:

What if two heroes are tied?

I cannot seem to find an answer to this question. Any thoughts?


It is your choice to which one is Destroyed. Since it is worded "Destroy the hero with the highest Total Attack Value"
Indicating only one hero is Destroyed.

Hope this helps
 
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Marius Roth
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If two heroes are tied for highest attack value, you may choose which one to destroy.

I *think* that you have to calculate the total attack value, including weapons etc. as you are allowed to boost a militia with Iron Rations etc. for it to become the hero with the highest strength for other monsters to destroy.
But I can be wrong.
 
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Aaron Hanson
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Ok, great, we played it this way as well. Thanks for the clarification.
 
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Astartus wrote:
If two heroes are tied for highest attack value, you may choose which one to destroy.

I *think* that you have to calculate the total attack value, including weapons etc. as you are allowed to boost a militia with Iron Rations etc. for it to become the hero with the highest strength for other monsters to destroy.
But I can be wrong.
Did u mean sone other card, b/c Iron Rations increases Strength, NOT Attack.
 
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Derrick Billings
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Astartus wrote:
If two heroes are tied for highest attack value, you may choose which one to destroy.

I *think* that you have to calculate the total attack value, including weapons etc. as you are allowed to boost a militia with Iron Rations etc. for it to become the hero with the highest strength for other monsters to destroy.
But I can be wrong.


Strength doesn't factor into attack value, unless you're just hulking him out so he can be the one swinging the Polearm. But then, it wouldn't suprise me if there were "highest Strength" effects on some monster or another, in which case I'd be delighted to force feed a Militia so that the dragon can be distracted by some nice foie gras.
 
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Gláucio Reis
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peltazoid wrote:
As it does have the word total in the effect, we play this to include all weapons attached and all effects that are played on that hero that increase the final attack value.

I don't know. I would include effects that target the hero's attack, but I would leave weapons out, as their attack values are considered separately in other situations. A card that turns a hero's attack into magic attack, for example, does not affect weapons, and vice-versa. Hopefully we will get an official answer.
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Attack+Magic Attack=TOTAL Attack
 
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Andy Pelton
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GSReis wrote:
peltazoid wrote:
As it does have the word total in the effect, we play this to include all weapons attached and all effects that are played on that hero that increase the final attack value.

I don't know. I would include effects that target the hero's attack, but I would leave weapons out, as their attack values are considered separately in other situations. A card that turns a hero's attack into magic attack, for example, does not affect weapons, and vice-versa. Hopefully we will get an official answer.


Why would you leave attached weapons out from calculating which Hero had the highest Attack Value? If they are Attached to a Hero then they contribute only to the Hero who they are Attached to.
 
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Gláucio Reis
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peltazoid wrote:
Why would you leave attached weapons out from calculating which Hero had the highest Attack Value?

Because, as I said and exemplified, the rules treat them as different attack values and they are never combined. I'm not claiming my interpretation is correct, but I think it is plausible.
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Marius Roth
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ackmondual wrote:
Astartus wrote:
If two heroes are tied for highest attack value, you may choose which one to destroy.

I *think* that you have to calculate the total attack value, including weapons etc. as you are allowed to boost a militia with Iron Rations etc. for it to become the hero with the highest strength for other monsters to destroy.
But I can be wrong.
Did u mean sone other card, b/c Iron Rations increases Strength, NOT Attack.

I might have explained this a bit incomprehensible.

What I meant was, there are monsters that destroy the hero with the highest strength. But you are allowed to boost the strength of one militia (or another weak hero) with several iron rations to make him one of the "strongest" hero, which then will get destroyed, thus protecting one of your more valuable heroes.
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Derrick Billings
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Astartus wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Astartus wrote:
If two heroes are tied for highest attack value, you may choose which one to destroy.

I *think* that you have to calculate the total attack value, including weapons etc. as you are allowed to boost a militia with Iron Rations etc. for it to become the hero with the highest strength for other monsters to destroy.
But I can be wrong.
Did u mean sone other card, b/c Iron Rations increases Strength, NOT Attack.

I might have explained this a bit incomprehensible.

What I meant was, there are monsters that destroy the hero with the highest strength. But you are allowed to boost the strength of one militia (or another weak hero) with several iron rations to make him one of the "strongest" hero, which then will get destroyed, thus protecting one of your more valuable heroes.


Repeat after me: Strength does not directly impact Attack Value.

If the monster is targeting highest ATTACK VALUE, then Iron Rations, etc means precisely BUPKIS on its own.


I'm such a retard. I didn't carefully read what you said. I owe you an apology.
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Marius Roth
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I absolutely know that Strength does not directly impact Attack Value.

I'm a game explainer for the distributer of the german version, and this is one of the most fundamental rules I have to answer in every round.

My example with a militia and strength was just a comparison of a similar working mechanic.
 
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Andy Pelton
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GSReis wrote:
peltazoid wrote:
Why would you leave attached weapons out from calculating which Hero had the highest Attack Value?

Because, as I said and exemplified, the rules treat them as different attack values and they are never combined. I'm not claiming my interpretation is correct, but I think it is plausible.



Hmmm, I now think both are plausible, as I may have been playing things like Goodberries wrong, i.e totalling up the heroes attack including weapons and other bonuses and applying the effect of Goodberries. Rather than Goodberries only affecting the Heroes Attack Value.
 
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peltazoid wrote:
GSReis wrote:
peltazoid wrote:
Why would you leave attached weapons out from calculating which Hero had the highest Attack Value?

Because, as I said and exemplified, the rules treat them as different attack values and they are never combined. I'm not claiming my interpretation is correct, but I think it is plausible.



Hmmm, I now think both are plausible, as I may have been playing things like Goodberries wrong, i.e totalling up the heroes attack including weapons and other bonuses and applying the effect of Goodberries. Rather than Goodberries only affecting the Heroes Attack Value.
No no, for this thread, I consider "hero with highest attack" to be just the hero itself, weapons excluded. With Goodberries, if a Lorig Thief equips a Short Sword, then she does 1 magic attack without weapons, and the Short Sword still does attack+4, for a total attack of 5 (1 magic, 4 regular)
 
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Marty Weil
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Warning: There is at least one card that only effects equipped heroes, and turns their attack, including the weapon's additive, into magic attack.

For that card's effect, the heroe's total attack INCLUDES the weapon attack value.

Not 100% sure, but I think that is Battle Fury from the original set, even...
 
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Jim Shaw
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I think we should fall back on theme and look at it as the Thunderspawn retaliates and kills the hero that caused it the most damage. That would be the hero with the highest attack score after all bonuses have been added. My interpretation anyway. Thanks
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Rauli Kettunen
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kinevon wrote:
Warning: There is at least one card that only effects equipped heroes, and turns their attack, including the weapon's additive, into magic attack.


Actually, from what I recall Goodberries are still up in the air so speak as to whether the Hero's own Attack just turns MA and weapons +Attack doesn't. Same for Arcane Energies, at least going by BGG threads:

Goodberry threads:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/516337/goodberries-and-weapo...
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/598195/goodberries-and-conve...

Arcane Energies:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/489964/rules-question-arcane...
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L. Scott Johnson
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RedV wrote:
I think we should fall back on theme and look at it as the Thunderspawn retaliates and kills the hero that caused it the most damage. That would be the hero with the highest attack score after all bonuses have been added. My interpretation anyway. Thanks


Yeah. This game's cards and rules don't lend themselves to this sort of precise by-the-letter resolution. Just embrace that you'll need to wing it every now and then and the game can be more enjoyable.
 
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Dam the Man wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Warning: There is at least one card that only effects equipped heroes, and turns their attack, including the weapon's additive, into magic attack.


Actually, from what I recall Goodberries are still up in the air so speak as to whether the Hero's own Attack just turns MA and weapons +Attack doesn't. Same for Arcane Energies, at least going by BGG threads:

Goodberry threads:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/516337/goodberries-and-weapo...
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/598195/goodberries-and-conve...

Arcane Energies:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/489964/rules-question-arcane...

Actually, these were answered as Goodberries and Arcane Energies only apply to the Attack value and any bonuses printed on the Hero's card. As for the OP, Bloodless specifically states the Hero with the highest TOTAL attack, which would include all bonuses from items, weapons, etc.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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xraine69 wrote:
Actually, these were answered as Goodberries and Arcane Energies only apply to the Attack value and any bonuses printed on the Hero's card. As for the OP, Bloodless specifically states the Hero with the highest TOTAL attack, which would include all bonuses from items, weapons, etc.


Thing is though, if those cards consider Hero and his weapons separate for not granting MA to both, why would Bloodless take weapons into account? Weapon adds to your total Attack, but if it doesn't get combined with some cards, why combine it with Hero's Attack in this case? Granted, that's probably the simplest way to go about it, since otherwise only Deep and Dwarf (at least from those I can recall) have inherently variable Attack values on them.
 
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Dam the Man wrote:
xraine69 wrote:
Actually, these were answered as Goodberries and Arcane Energies only apply to the Attack value and any bonuses printed on the Hero's card. As for the OP, Bloodless specifically states the Hero with the highest TOTAL attack, which would include all bonuses from items, weapons, etc.


Thing is though, if those cards consider Hero and his weapons separate for not granting MA to both, why would Bloodless take weapons into account? Weapon adds to your total Attack, but if it doesn't get combined with some cards, why combine it with Hero's Attack in this case? Granted, that's probably the simplest way to go about it, since otherwise only Deep and Dwarf (at least from those I can recall) have inherently variable Attack values on them.

Because Goodberries and Arcane refers to the Attack from the hero and Bloodless refers to Total attack. A hero's Attack value is what is listed on his card and Total Attack is the combination of Attack and Magic Attack after all weapons, base amounts and items. Is it really that difficult to determine the differences in the language of the cards?
 
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Brent Keith
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peltazoid wrote:
Scubatoad wrote:
Hi guys,

The Battle Effect on The Bloodless (Abyssal*Thunderspawn) says,
"Battle: Destroy the Hero with the highest Total Attack Value."

Does the Total Attack Value of a Hero include Attacks from both the Hero and his Weapon,or Attacks from the Hero without his Weapon? What about food or spells?


As it does have the word total in the effect, we play this to include all weapons attached and all effects that are played on that hero that increase the final attack value.

Correct. That is exactly why the word "total" is in there.


Quote:
Scubatoad wrote:

What if two heroes are tied?

I cannot seem to find an answer to this question. Any thoughts?


It is your choice to which one is Destroyed. Since it is worded "Destroy the hero with the highest Total Attack Value"
Indicating only one hero is Destroyed.

Correct - both in this particular instance, and as a general rule of thumb. In general, if there is a choice in who gets affected by a bit of card text (due to more than one card meeting the criteria, or for other reasons), the active player chooses.
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