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Subject: Scenario 3: Event question (partial spoiler) rss

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Hugh Grotius
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We're in the midst of Scenario 3, and I'm an investigator, not the Keeper, so please don't tell me what happens! Our game is paused, partly because the Keeper encountered an Event (#3) that she wasn't sure how to resolve. She consulted me because I'm not the blood relative, and the card targets the blood relative (who, fortunately, was out of the room when she drew the card in the first place). The event involves a memory, and it says if the blood relative "repeats this" something happens.

We *think* it means the blood relative has to decide whether he wants to utter the memory. If he does, something happens; if he doesn't, nothing happens. Is that right? Or is the point to test whether his memory is good enough to repeat the phrase word-for-word; if he does, something happens, and if he doesn't, nothing happens? We're stumped.

Again, please no further spoilers. I know it's normally Keepers who ask this sort of question, but this is an odd case; I'm a lowly investigator in mid-story.
 
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Douglas G
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I had the same question when I played. This card is very poorly worded. It seems like it needs more choices. We played it as if the blood relative chose to say the phrase then we resoled the effect that matches the keeps choice of clue 1. If they don't repeat it, then nothing happens.

However, who in their right mind would utter something that a mysterious uncle; who may have dabbled in the black arts; taught them.
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Hugh Grotius
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Thanks for your reply. OK, we'll play it that way, too. And I agree, it's poorly-worded.
 
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Cameron Chien
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Rancho Cucamonga
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What's very confusing about this one is the Event II also has a choice for the blood relative to make, but this one doesn't specify that the blood relative is NOT allowed to know the consequences of his/her choices before making it.

In other words, in resolving Event III, it says to not let the blood relative know what would happen until after they choose. Yet Event II has a similar choice but doesn't have this restriction printed on the card.

Again, sloppy work on the part of the editors.

Cameron
 
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Jens Kreutzer
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This comment involves a minor spoiler:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Depending on the choice of the Keeper for one of the Clues, uttering the phrase will have a good effect, a bad effect, or no effect, respectively. If you have played this scenario before, the blood relative player has to choose whether he wants to take the risk of something bad happening for the chance of something good happening. Depending on the results, you might also deduce the victory condition - so taking the risk might be worth it.


Of course, if the player chooses to not let his investigator utter the phrase, nothing will happen. This is all in-game; the player does not have to actually memorize the phrase or even say it aloud.

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Chris Linneman
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Jens, in fact this event concerns Clue 5, which should be discovered within the first couple turns of the game, long before Event 3 triggers. So the investigators will be able to deduce nothing about their objective from the result of uttering the phrase. If they could, it would be an interesting choice, but as it is, it just seems sloppy, and might as well have been "no event" since one result is bad for the investigators and the other is situational.

Also, it seems clear that the investigators should know the possible results for Event 1 before choosing, as the wording is: The blood relative must choose 1 of the following... leading directly into describing the results.
 
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Chris J Davis
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QBert80 wrote:
Jens, in fact this event concerns Clue 5, which should be discovered within the first couple turns of the game, long before Event 3 triggers. So the investigators will be able to deduce nothing about their objective from the result of uttering the phrase. If they could, it would be an interesting choice, but as it is, it just seems sloppy, and might as well have been "no event" since one result is bad for the investigators and the other is situational.

Also, it seems clear that the investigators should know the possible results for Event 1 before choosing, as the wording is: The blood relative must choose 1 of the following... leading directly into describing the results.


I noticed this event in our game the other day and thought it was a bit silly, as if the investigators know which clue triggers which condition, they can easily know whether to say the phrase or not. This event should really have triggered off of Clue 2.
 
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Alessandro Cingolani
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I just played today this scenario (1A, 2A, 3A, 4B, 5A) and I was really puzzled, as the Keeper, in reading the first three event cards, particularly when I stumbled upon the third one: it makes no friggin sense.

In particular:

- You remember a phrase told by your uncle. Ok. Then...
- It asks the blood relative to "repeat this" (this what? the phrase? repeat to resolve what? a choice based SOLELY by the choice of 5A or 5B at the start? So if it's everything decided by the 5A/5B choice, what the hell must the blood relative choose between?).
- It then shows a resolution based on 5A/5B.

Utterly non sense.

So I checked out all the cards layed out in front of me, and I think I got the hang of it: the order of the Events is screwed up. Simple as that.

Just think about it: after TWO turns the blood relative hears an alien voice, and then he has to choose between yes or no. If he choose "no", then they've to confront, at the start of the game, a Mi-Go and, if the Keeper is not entirely dumb, at least 2 zombies (we've played in 3, with 2 investigators). So, as soon as the scenario starts, the possibility for the Keeper to "farm" samples from the players is really on the easy side, moreover with a monster who's able to run away from the players in a breezee (using the vent in the storage shed). Then, again, after only 2 more turns, there it goes another Mi-Go, another easy sample for the Keeper. In general, the keeper can get at least 2 samples on the altar long before the Event 3 is drawn, and maybe if the investigators are unlucky, even 3 samples, thus winning the game.

Now, try to re-order the event cards in this way:

- Event 1: A Memory - Same flavor text, NO CHOICE for the blood relative, and resolve for 5A/5B (fire token in Graveyard/zombie in Graveyard). In the case of 5A, the Keeper cannot spawn Zombies near the investigators (remember, clue 5A is in the Storage Shed) anymore, since the Graveyard is on fire, thus is limited in spawning them in the Crypt and must wait for the investigators to open up the ladder to get the zombies rapidly outside. In the case of 5B, the Keeper gets a Zombie and keeps the possibility to spawn them in the Graveyard, but the clue is in the Front Porch, further away from the Graveyard. Moreover, there's no risk to get a Mi-Go after just 2 turns from the start.

- Event 2: A Bargain - Now is the time for the blood relative to make the dreaded choice. Moreover, the part about "He may not know the result before choosing" is consistent with the Bargain event ("Do you want to get 1 Horror and a spell card or just a Mi-Go monster that will just just help me to put you all in a grave, and are you happy that I'm telling you this?"). I still don't have a single clue what does it mean the part about "repeating this", but at this point I don't think it's anymore relevant.

- Event 3: Another Servant. No changes apart from the switch from event 2 to event 3.

IMHO in this order things have a sense, not only from just a gameplay point of view, but even for the sake of story-telling. The only thing that I'm still wondering is the time needed for the events, leaving the timing on 2-2-5 or switching the 5 to the Event 2 and 2 to the Event 3 (2-5-2). But I think that 2-2-5 is ok and should not have a significant impact.

I'll take a shot tomorrow for another run with this change that I made, and keep you posted on the results. In the meantime, if you have opinions let me know.
 
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Paul V
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Galandil wrote:

In particular:

- You remember a phrase told by your uncle. Ok. Then...
- It asks the blood relative to "repeat this" (this what? the phrase? repeat to resolve what? a choice based SOLELY by the choice of 5A or 5B at the start? So if it's everything decided by the 5A/5B choice, what the hell must the blood relative choose between?).
- It then shows a resolution based on 5A/5B.


If the investigator repeats the phrase, then you resolve the outcome based on 5A/5B. If the investigator does not repeat the phrase, nothing happens. So really there's three outcomes:

* Player chooses to repeat the phrase, and it's 5A:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Graveyard on fire

* Player chooses to repeat the phrase, and it's 5B:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Free zombie for the keeper

* Player does not repeat the phrase: Nothing happens.

Quote:
- Event 2: A Bargain - Now is the time for the blood relative to make the dreaded choice. Moreover, the part about "He may not know the result before choosing" is consistent with the Bargain event ("Do you want to get 1 Horror and a spell card or just a Mi-Go monster that will just just help me to put you all in a grave, and are you happy that I'm telling you this?").


THAT choice has a possible, and far more serious, repercussion later on, though, that could potentially cost them the game. Even if they know the immediate effects they don't know the long-term effect:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
In the long run, accepting the offer gives a (nearly) guaranteed sample to the keeper on a later turn, while rejecting the offer gives a monster and a possible sample to the keeper earlier.
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Alessandro Cingolani
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Yes, I know about the repercussion based on the choice of the Bargain on event V.

Still, I don't like at all the fact that in 4 turns there may be 2 Mi-Go on the map, and that the event III is so insignificant.

I tried today a game with the changes I had in mind, and the game went rather smoothly, with the events swapped as I said the pathos increased while the game went on.
 
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"Every Board Game I Reach Is Dead"
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I believe the correct thing to do here is to not let the Investigators know the outcome to either of the two decisions given to the Blood Relative.

The order and effects of the events also may encourage the investigators to make the wrong decision second time round as well which is all the more entertaining ("I got attacked by a Mi-Go last time I refused to go along with the event, so I'll do it this time and it will hopeflly be right").

My major confusion with Blood Ties is that my objective says the Investigators win if they kill a named Cult Leader, and yet I can't find any reference to one being spawned on any card. Where does this named Cult Leader come from and at what time?!

...Oh wait, I got it. goo
 
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Gildor Finelen
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The relative simply must decide if performing the card (if she wants to interpret she can say loudly the words on the card). If she decides so, the rest of the card happens, if not... nothing happens.
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