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Subject: FFG Print On Demand -- CE possibilities? rss

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Jefferson Krogh
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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2055

I wonder if we'll see this used for Cosmic Encounter. I wonder how they would use it. Mini-expansions for the Technology, Rewards and Hazards deck? Something new?
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Patrick
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Extra attack cards and negotiates to balance the deck for 6/7 player games would be interesting.
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Big Head Zach
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2055

I wonder if we'll see this used for Cosmic Encounter. I wonder how they would use it. Mini-expansions for the Technology, Rewards and Hazards deck? Something new?


I could see it being done as a cheap way to introduce Moons. For new alien powers, the POD service would have to include the placards as well, and there's always the art commissions that have to come first.

What POD definitely means for CE is that we can ask for additional Cosmic/Reward/Destiny cards for homebrewing purposes.
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Just a Bill
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PatOs wrote:
Extra attack cards and negotiates to balance the deck for 6/7 player games would be interesting.

Print on Demand would not be suitable for that. FFG explains on their website that this process cannot match the colors of the regular components and cannot produce linen-finish cards, so it is only suitable for components that do not need to be shuffled in with existing stuff.

bhz1 wrote:
I could see it being done as a cheap way to introduce Moons.

Maybe. Judging by the Space Marines set they are offering first, it looks like it's about 5 dollars for 12 cards. I'm thinking PoD is going to be best for true micro expansions along the lines of Chrononauts' Lost Identities.

bhz1 wrote:
For new alien powers, the POD service would have to include the placards as well, and there's always the art commissions that have to come first.

I could see this working for the alien sheets, but Flares would be basically impossible with this technology.

bhz1 wrote:
What POD definitely means for CE is that we can ask for additional Cosmic/Reward/Destiny cards for homebrewing purposes.

"Definitely"? I'd say read the website first.
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Chris Ferejohn
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Bill Martinson wrote:


bhz1 wrote:
What POD definitely means for CE is that we can ask for additional Cosmic/Reward/Destiny cards for homebrewing purposes.

"Definitely"? I'd say read the website first.


Well, it definitely means we can ask...
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Just a Bill
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cferejohn wrote:
Well, it definitely means we can ask...

Yep, that's true of everything.

So what kinds of things might PoD be able to offer Cosmic? I'll throw out a few speculative ideas:

Special hexes implemented either as oversized cards with rings/space dust/gas giant kinds of images on them, or as simple text cards that let each player's five planets do something different than everyone else's five planets.

Global rules cards. Draw one from a mini-deck at the start of the game for optional variety:
* For this game, everyone is Pentaform.
* Everyone starts the game with one fewer ship on each planet (place the extras out of play).
* If any player achieves a solo victory, he or she gets to pick which alien to be in the next game that includes at least two of the same opponents.
* Ally rewards are reversed for the entire game.
* All Reinforcements are Cosmic Zaps for this game, but you must send two of your own ships to the warp to use one.
* etc.

Hidden agenda cards. Each player draws one at game start, notes the alternate victory condition it gives to him alone, and keeps it face down until needed.

In short, PoD would be suitable for the kinds of add-on mechanics that would be something like a hazard or tech deck, but with relatively small numbers of cards due to the cost of printing on demand.

(Basically the kinds of things you could homebrew yourself, but with professional artwork.)
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Jefferson Krogh
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I hadn't seen the more detailed page when I posted this thread. I agree that it's not a good fit for existing Cosmic Decks.

I honestly don't think the game needs any additional decks -- Cosmic, Destiny, Tech, Rewards and Hazards are enough. More would probably be too much.
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Sean Franco
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
I hadn't seen the more detailed page when I posted this thread. I agree that it's not a good fit for existing Cosmic Decks.

I honestly don't think the game needs any additional decks -- Cosmic, Destiny, Tech, Rewards and Hazards are enough. More would probably be too much.

But if FFG follows their trend, we'll be getting new decks with each expansion. Aren't there supposed to be three more expansions? That's three more decks...
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Jefferson Krogh
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logopolys wrote:
Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
I hadn't seen the more detailed page when I posted this thread. I agree that it's not a good fit for existing Cosmic Decks.

I honestly don't think the game needs any additional decks -- Cosmic, Destiny, Tech, Rewards and Hazards are enough. More would probably be too much.

But if FFG follows their trend, we'll be getting new decks with each expansion. Aren't there supposed to be three more expansions? That's three more decks...


According to Peter Olotka, three more expansions are on the eventual schedule.

There's no particular reason to think that FFG won't come up with different things to do with cards in future expansions. We've discussed several ideas here on BGG, including:

* Expanding the current decks
* Moons as cards (not quite a deck, really)
* Aliens that have mini-decks of their own
* Blank cards

I think there's a limit to how many decks you can effectively use in a single game of Cosmic, and with Hazards we've hit it. If FFG does add yet another deck in the next expansion, I'll likely decide to stop using Technology...
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Sean Franco
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
According to Peter Olotka, three more expansions are on the eventual schedule.

There's no particular reason to think that FFG won't come up with different things to do with cards in future expansions. We've discussed several ideas here on BGG, including:

* Expanding the current decks
* Moons as cards (not quite a deck, really)
* Aliens that have mini-decks of their own
* Blank cards

I think there's a limit to how many decks you can effectively use in a single game of Cosmic, and with Hazards we've hit it. If FFG does add yet another deck in the next expansion, I'll likely decide to stop using Technology...

That's a good point. Are moons any more likely than lucre?

I like the idea of mini-decks. Is there a previous example of this I can go look at and salivate over?
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logopolys wrote:
I like the idea of mini-decks. Is there a previous example of this I can go look at and salivate over?


Published? Nope, it would be a whole new thing, I think.

I've suggested two aliens get this treatment, and probably so often that everyone is getting tired of hearing about it. ;-) The first is Witch. Instead of asking Witch to think up an open-ended curse, give Witch a small deck of possible curses. Pick one, hand it to the player. Don't repeat curses until the deck's run out.

The second is Schizoid, which chooses an alternate victory condition. In the old days, Schizoid would just make something up using some loose guidelines. FFG should give Schizoid a deck of cards to choose from. Schizoid could have 10-20 cards to pick from, possibly. Put the victory condition card face down on his alien sheet, reveal when needed. (That would beat the old days of trying to decipher a guy's horrible and vague handwriting on a sheet of scrap paper that would often go missing in the confusion of the game...)
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Sean Franco
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
logopolys wrote:
I like the idea of mini-decks. Is there a previous example of this I can go look at and salivate over?


Published? Nope, it would be a whole new thing, I think.

I've suggested two aliens get this treatment, and probably so often that everyone is getting tired of hearing about it. ;-) The first is Witch. Instead of asking Witch to think up an open-ended curse, give Witch a small deck of possible curses. Pick one, hand it to the player. Don't repeat curses until the deck's run out.

The second is Schizoid, which chooses an alternate victory condition. In the old days, Schizoid would just make something up using some loose guidelines. FFG should give Schizoid a deck of cards to choose from. Schizoid could have 10-20 cards to pick from, possibly. Put the victory condition card face down on his alien sheet, reveal when needed. (That would beat the old days of trying to decipher a guy's horrible and vague handwriting on a sheet of scrap paper that would often go missing in the confusion of the game...)

Awesome.
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
I think there's a limit to how many decks you can effectively use in a single game of Cosmic, and with Hazards we've hit it.

There's also a limit to how many alien powers you can effectively use in a single game of Cosmic, and we blew past that limit back during the Carter administration.

In either case, nobody says you have to use them all at once, and as long as they're all good I don't see any harm in the variety.
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
Schizoid could have 10-20 cards to pick from, possibly. Put the victory condition card face down on his alien sheet, reveal when needed.


I would be afraid that a group familiar with the 20 conditions could narrow it down pretty quickly with their one question per encounter, and then Schizoid is worthless once the secret is out.

The beauty of Schizoid for me is the ability to be creative.
 
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:

I think there's a limit to how many decks you can effectively use in a single game of Cosmic, and with Hazards we've hit it.


You need a bigger table!

There are two types of new decks could be made; a deck with cards for players hands (like the cosmic deck and reward deck) or a deck without cards for our hands (like technology and hazards).

The former would be little different than adding new cards to the cosmic deck, only he source would be different. For instance, they could print a deck of cards available only through lucre purchases in order to promote lucre.

Aside from taking space on the table is this any more complex than adding those same cards to the main deck? It could provide extra considerations when selecting cards and extra information as to what might be in anybody's hand. Beyond that, it's just new cards. Really if FFG prints Aristocrat or lucre that would essentially add the unused flares as an active deck. Even Reincarnator (and their flare) effectively add the alien sheets as a new deck.

The latter could do any number of things, but like tech and hazards would be mostly independent of the other decks.

Why a new deck would motivate to scrap an old one is beyond me, unless you simply think the game will become bogged down in complexity. But wouldn't a non deck expansions (like moons, lucre, or stars) add just as much complication?
 
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Luke O'Hearn
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On topic, I'd be surprised if we see a PoD expansion for CE. The line seems to be intended for products for which traditional expansions are not feasible. Since traditional CE receives traditional expansion support there is no need or PoD - anything FFG wishes to add to CE can simply be sold in an upcoming box.

For CE I could see a micro expansion for a variant for which FFG is not particularly enthusiastic (such as lucre) or at such a time when a traditional boxed add on is no longer viable (either because sales drop off or the designers exhaust their ideas). Of course I'm the type who wants more and more and more Cosmic Encounter, so I'd happily welcome PoD. I'm already chomping at the bit for the next expansion.
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btblack wrote:
Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
Schizoid could have 10-20 cards to pick from, possibly. Put the victory condition card face down on his alien sheet, reveal when needed.


I would be afraid that a group familiar with the 20 conditions could narrow it down pretty quickly with their one question per encounter, and then Schizoid is worthless once the secret is out.

The beauty of Schizoid for me is the ability to be creative.


You're assuming the "20 questions" part of Schizoid would stay intact, but you have a point. I disliked how open-ended it could get; I've seen people write down some ridiculous victory conditions: "4 bases, has a Coke in front of him and *suspicious smudged pencil marks*".

Anyway, if not Schizoid, then Witch for sure!
 
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Actually, it wouldn't be that hard to add variety and mystery for Schizoid using cards. Let's give Schizoid 3 mini-decks:

Deck A: number of bases needed to win, numbered 0-7 (8 cards)
Deck B: another condition as per the original Schizoid (8-10 cards)
Deck C: a "red herring" card.

Schizoid lays three cards face down during Game Setup: one from Deck A, one from Deck B, and one from Deck C. During Start Turn, the offense may choose to secretly look at one of those cards. He can't tell anyone else what he sees. Schizoid may shuffle/rearrange those three cards between encounters if he wishes. Schizoid may, as part of a deal, agree to reveal one of more of his victory condition cards.

Just pulling ideas out of my ass, and totally derailing my own thread, but what the hell....
 
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
btblack wrote:
Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
Schizoid could have 10-20 cards to pick from, possibly. Put the victory condition card face down on his alien sheet, reveal when needed.


I would be afraid that a group familiar with the 20 conditions could narrow it down pretty quickly with their one question per encounter, and then Schizoid is worthless once the secret is out.

The beauty of Schizoid for me is the ability to be creative.


You're assuming the "20 questions" part of Schizoid would stay intact, but you have a point. I disliked how open-ended it could get; I've seen people write down some ridiculous victory conditions: "4 bases, has a Coke in front of him and *suspicious smudged pencil marks*".

Anyway, if not Schizoid, then Witch for sure!


That's assuming you stick to the old "ask Schizoid a question about the win condition" formula. If you have a finite set of alternate win conditions, players could be given other ways of accessing that info... like, every time they beat Schizoid in an encounter, they can see one of the cards he didn't pick.

goo
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I think Planet Profiles are a great contender for POD. What would be especially awesome... like AWESOME BEYOND COMPARE... would be an interface on FFG's website for designing your own POD cards.

They could work it so you can only use templates they have available, and artwork from their own games. My kids play with websites that do this already, designing costumes and characters from those available and then printing them.

Then you save your work and it's available to everyone else as well. I think FFG could do VERY well with something like this, with just a little up front work on the interface and populating it- kinda like a Strange Eons for several of their games.
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The Warp wrote:
I think Planet Profiles are a great contender for POD. What would be especially awesome... like AWESOME BEYOND COMPARE... would be an interface on FFG's website for designing your own POD cards.

They could work it so you can only use templates they have available, and artwork from their own games. My kids play with websites that do this already, designing costumes and characters from those available and then printing them.

Then you save your work and it's available to everyone else as well. I think FFG could do VERY well with something like this, with just a little up front work on the interface and populating it- kinda like a Strange Eons for several of their games.


SO SAY WE ALL. thumbsup
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Yea, that 'Coke' condition is unfair. I think you can structure some limiting guidelines and still leave it open-ended. For example, saying it has to be a in-game condition may take away the opportunity for someone to right down something like that. There are some 'abuse' issues with Schizoid, and so it should be a Red alert power. But even with 3 mini-decks of about 8 cards each, I can figure out the card in each Deck with 3-4 yes/no questions. So in about 10 encounters or less, I've got all 3 cards figured, and the Schizoid mystery is over.
 
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btblack wrote:
Yea, that 'Coke' condition is unfair. I think you can structure some limiting guidelines and still leave it open-ended. For example, saying it has to be a in-game condition may take away the opportunity for someone to right down something like that. There are some 'abuse' issues with Schizoid, and so it should be a Red alert power. But even with 3 mini-decks of about 8 cards each, I can figure out the card in each Deck with 3-4 yes/no questions. So in about 10 encounters or less, I've got all 3 cards figured, and the Schizoid mystery is over.


That's why you'd drop the yes/no questions and go to the secret peek system, as I mentioned above.
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
btblack wrote:
Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
Schizoid could have 10-20 cards to pick from, possibly. Put the victory condition card face down on his alien sheet, reveal when needed.


I would be afraid that a group familiar with the 20 conditions could narrow it down pretty quickly with their one question per encounter, and then Schizoid is worthless once the secret is out.

The beauty of Schizoid for me is the ability to be creative.


You're assuming the "20 questions" part of Schizoid would stay intact, but you have a point. I disliked how open-ended it could get; I've seen people write down some ridiculous victory conditions: "4 bases, has a Coke in front of him and *suspicious smudged pencil marks*".

Anyway, if not Schizoid, then Witch for sure!


Mayfair modified Schizoid such that the extra condition had to be directly related to the game.
 
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The Warp wrote:
I think Planet Profiles are a great contender for POD.


It is delightful and encouraging that you think CE is a contender for POD! I hope you're right.
 
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