davide pessach
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The subject pretty much says it all...

I feel one of the main mechanics in CC is the officer's command radius. Sometimes you have too few officers, too many units, too wide territory to cover or the enemy can slip through easily if you don't cover completely the battlefield.
But sometimes it is also very dangerous to leave units out of officer's control. Few orders available, few cards, low morale units...you risk not being able to man them or leaving them easy prey for the enemy.

I'm curious to know how you guys handle this issue.
As an example a typical problematic setup (in my humble opinion) is this one here...talking about the italians:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/436080/21-what-do-i-do-i...

I really can't get what would push me to leave those units alone. My setup here would be two groups (as the italian has only 2 officers). One line from D5 to G6 and another line from J5 to L5. I would also use the chance to get 4 units on the field after the first time trigger. And also I would put to good use those 5 foxholes (using them all in those 2 lines).

thanks for your opinions!

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Joe C Faust
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IMO, one thing that makes a great game is the forced decision - you never have enough resources to do what is ideal, so you try and make do with what you have. CC is one of those games, from spreading troops out across the board to the cards in your hand. This situation is classic in that respect.

I like the Italian setup as shown. He hasn't made the mistake of putting two units in a hex outside of a leader's command radius. Each hex can be activated with one move or fire card. Buy poisoning the woods on the American right with mines, he's made them an inconvenient place to take cover and hampered a flanking move in that direction. By setting up units close to the advancing U.S. - the woods, the house, the center cliff - he's made that particular real estate very expensive. With the right combination of Move and Fire cards, they can inflict a price on their attackers and fall back to the already reinforced positions.

Whereas if there are two solid lines in command, they'll likely be met head-on by a large fire group, pinning them down in position while another leadered group flanks them to bring more firepower into the hex, or to move off the board for points and reinforcements.

That's my take on the situation. But then, I've also been known to abandon squads if they got behind and were too far out of command radius to be brought up quickly. Sacrifices have to be made, whether it's leaving someone behind or putting them in harm's way.
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davide pessach
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thanks Joe. I agree as for the mines and the "two units" issue.

As for the main subject I disagree. Those lone units will be easy prey for the american line units with medium mg. Americans and italians both have only 2 officers so the two lines (quite distant one from the other) will likely be met by the two american groups with those 2 officers; so no room for a third group to flank.

My strong point here is being able to place in defence (with foxholes and mines) and on the hill so italian will get +1 in firing and american -1.

Lone units (with weapons) can act as temporary stopper and "gap filler" (in order to slow the enemy and get time for other units to move there); but these italian units are too weak to do that, and 4 cards too few. Italian deck with that lot of command confusion won't help either.
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Tom Stearns
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I don't like the isolated units at the front or the one at the back. I like to maximize my leaders by placing units, at a minimum, on either side of them so they can incluence at least three squads/weapons. That is if it is a 1 command leader. 2 command leaders offer much more flexibility. I would group the units in two or three good fire groups, utilizing the leaders command range. The mines should be used to channel the enemy into your killing zones. They can choose to face mines or machine guns. I like to put a fire group in range of the exit hex for the mines so you can get a shot at broken units moving out of the mine field. Setting them up on that flank is fine. There is one MG positioned with a good field of fire, but imho you need something else to create some cross fire, even if just a squad, like at H6, which would work well with the unit at G5, to form a fire group. The unit at C3 is wasted there. Once the enemy reaches the end of that tree line there isn't much more cover for them. I like C6 better for that unit. Put the leader in E7, especially if he is a 2 command rating, where he can reach C6. So if the unit at G3 goes to H6, that leavse the unit at the rear to place. Maybe put that unit on the forward slope at K8 to give that fire group more punch.

I like the question. We should have more of these "what would you do?" threads.

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davide pessach
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Ok guys. Here is my setup. After the italians set up strong on the center and east, americans decided to go for the west side (sneaky) and up front on the east side (which is weaker).

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Tom Stearns
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Once he clears that tree line on your right, he will have to cross open ground to get any further. I think you are okay. Strong fire groups.
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Confusion Under Fire
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I have before now had a squad with an MMG on its own. As there is just one unit it can operate like a normal group but without the bonuses offered with a leader. You also have to consider the number of orders per turn and the disadvantages of losing an MMG from a group with a leader. A small group like this can cover open ground and fire upon a group before they themselves can be attacked. Not a bad thing to do if you lose a leader early on in a game.
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Borat Sagdiyev
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gohrns wrote:
Once he clears that tree line on your right, he will have to cross open ground to get any further. I think you are okay. Strong fire groups.


I disagree. In fact, I think the Italian setup suggested by the OP is rather suboptimal.

By placing his main firegroup in F6, he won't have any LoS to most hexes in the American left flank (D6 blocks LoS to A6/B6 and beyond). And if he tries to reposition to D6 he will then be exposed to an easy melee attack from C7.

I don't see any reason why the Italians should not place their main firegroup in F4 from the very beginning of this scenario. It is a much safer position and, most importantly, he will have a clear LoS to most of the hexes in the whole map.

Same reasoning works for the Italian left flank. Italian units we'll have better LoS as well as a safer defensive position at the top of the hill and so they'll more easily manage to make the American advance on that flank harder and slower.
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davide pessach
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Borat you have a point. And I would shift to your suggested positions.

But you have to consider this: if you give up half of the map to the americans and build what could be considered a last line of defense right from the start you are forfeiting a possible win by sudden death.
I explain myself more clearly: What could happen here is that american with his better firepower and morale can break and rout italians; and if you break a "fucilieri" unit (6 morale when broken) three hexes from the italian edge (F4) a successful rout could be a disaster.
And all of this could happen very fast as the american would gain that half of the map in a couple of move orders (for each group).

Instead if I stay where I set up and retreat when things go bad I still have a last line of defense available (the one you pointed out). And all of this would take some time to happen gettin' italian close to the end for sudden death...
Now leaving those foxholes to the enemy doesn't please me but I would still have my bonus for shooting downhill...

So, in the end I do like your hint (certainly better view from up there), but I wouldn't be so convinced that would be optimal.
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Simone dalla Chiesa
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Davide, I won't reveal my opinons on the matter, since I'm challenging you to this Scenario next week. See you Sunday at the tournament.
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davide pessach
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:D
Right Simone... as you see I'm studying. Looking forward to definitely not having an outrageous defeat like the one you imposed on me!
:-)
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Joe C Faust
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gohrns wrote:
I like the question. We should have more of these "what would you do?" threads.


Agreed!
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Borat Sagdiyev
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patgarret77 wrote:
Borat you have a point. And I would shift to your suggested positions.

But you have to consider this: if you give up half of the map to the americans and build what could be considered a last line of defense right from the start you are forfeiting a possible win by sudden death.
I explain myself more clearly: What could happen here is that american with his better firepower and morale can break and rout italians; and if you break a "fucilieri" unit (6 morale when broken) three hexes from the italian edge (F4) a successful rout could be a disaster.
And all of this could happen very fast as the american would gain that half of the map in a couple of move orders (for each group).


Americans will have a much easier time at breaking and eliminating the Italians with your original setup, as they will be able to attack in close combat in a faster and safer way your foxholes in D6 and F6 from the good cover offered by hexes C7/D7 and F7. Besides, they will also be able to gain Exit VPs without any significant Italian opposition.

OTOH the Americans are not going to have such an easy task when moving forwards if the Italians set up far behind as they will need to cross through several clear hexes and risk being broken by Italian op fire.

Quote:
Instead if I stay where I set up and retreat when things go bad I still have a last line of defense available (the one you pointed out). And all of this would take some time to happen gettin' italian close to the end for sudden death...


As I've just said, you won't have any significant line of defense at the bottom of the hill. Quite on the contrary you will be exposing the Italian units to way more deadly close combat attacks, while if they start on the top of the hill the Americans won't be able to lay any meaningful firepower on them from below.

Moreover, a reverse slope defense with the Italians can be a rather risky business given their low morale. They can be an easy prey to American op fire when trying to move back to the top of the hill through clear hill hexes.

Quote:
Now leaving those foxholes to the enemy doesn't please me but I would still have my bonus for shooting downhill...


Another reason not to setup the Italians at the bottom of the hill. Those foxholes can be very useful to the Yanks if they decide to take objectives 4 and 5.

Quote:
So, in the end I do like your hint (certainly better view from up there), but I wouldn't be so convinced that would be optimal.


I don't know if my suggested setup is an optimal one, but it certainly seems less risky for the Italians and a much harder nut to crack for the Americans.
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davide pessach
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Thanks guys...
Borat in the end I do think your setup is better than mine even if in the end the american won but had a difficult time in the west side and completely devastated the italians on the east.
The americans won for surrender but Ottolini and a couple of fucilieri with MG were still fighting hard on the hill just south of the two main objectives.
Next on the list will be scenario 22.
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