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Subject: Assist, Support, Reinforcement.... WHO is actually dying? rss

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Fabio Calzolari
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Got my second play today... all was going at a good pace until the first combat...

I'm asking for a sort of "lesson" about combat....you can call me dumb, but i can't get it stick on my mind.

So, i (red Terran) was attacked by the yellow Protoss: he put his Scout against my Firebat, and his Dragoon against my Marine. I had a Goliath more, forced to support.

Now, the Firebat can't damage the flying Scout... does it change something if the Goliath (which can) supports him?

Anyway, i put the Goliath to support the Marine, hoping to destroy the Dragoon... the final result was that the Firebat, the Marine and the Dragoon all died. No Splash Damage cards.
What happen to my Goliath now? Is it dead too, retiring or just staying there, forcing the attacker to retire, instead?

What if i had an Assist unit?

Thanksblush
 
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Ragh Gavar
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parduz wrote:
Now, the Firebat can't damage the flying Scout... does it change something if the Goliath (which can) supports him?

In this case, no.
parduz wrote:
What happen to my Goliath now? Is it dead too, retiring or just staying there, forcing the attacker to retire, instead?

The goliath lives and forces the attacker to retreat.
parduz wrote:
What if i had an Assist unit?

Assist units are placed as support, by definition. If the attacker does not successfully kill supporting units, they must retreat after the battle.
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Fabio Calzolari
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Thanks...
Mordenthral wrote:
parduz wrote:
What happen to my Goliath now? Is it dead too, retiring or just staying there, forcing the attacker to retire, instead?

The goliath lives and forces the attacker to retreat.

Ok. So to kill supporting units the only way is Splash Damage or some Combat Cards?
This means also that the attacker get the area only if he kills all the defending units (not counting Assist ones)....right?
 
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da metz
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Right. Support units can only be killed by splash or special cards.

But normally the defender has only assist units supporting his front line units (because of the area`s unit limit). So they can hardly be killed but have to retreat if they`re the last units living.
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Ragh Gavar
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If a front line unit cannot shoot the opposing front line unit, but it CAN shoot at a supporting unit in the same skirmish AND it has sufficient strength, then a supporting unit can be killed. The person losing the supporting unit decides which unit dies if they have more than one supporting unit in that skirmish.
 
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Fabio Calzolari
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Mordenthral wrote:
If a front line unit cannot shoot the opposing front line unit, but it CAN shoot at a supporting unit in the same skirmish AND it has sufficient strength, then a supporting unit can be killed.


Don't worry for the smell and the smoke, it is just my brain
So, a front line ground unit that can't shoot to a front line flying unit then MAY shoot at a supporting ground unit?
 
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Ragh Gavar
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parduz wrote:
Mordenthral wrote:
If a front line unit cannot shoot the opposing front line unit, but it CAN shoot at a supporting unit in the same skirmish AND it has sufficient strength, then a supporting unit can be killed.


Don't worry for the smell and the smoke, it is just my brain
So, a front line ground unit that can't shoot to a front line flying unit then MAY shoot at a supporting ground unit?

In the same skirmish, yes. You still compare front line strength and defence to determine if the supporting unit is destroyed.
 
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Fabio Calzolari
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Mordenthral wrote:
parduz wrote:
Mordenthral wrote:
If a front line unit cannot shoot the opposing front line unit, but it CAN shoot at a supporting unit in the same skirmish AND it has sufficient strength, then a supporting unit can be killed.


Don't worry for the smell and the smoke, it is just my brain
So, a front line ground unit that can't shoot to a front line flying unit then MAY shoot at a supporting ground unit?

In the same skirmish, yes. You still compare front line strength and defence to determine if the supporting unit is destroyed.

Using the played card on the supporting unit as if it was played "on it"? So using smaller number if the unit does not match the card, etc... right?

Man, i feel stupid. I read that damn rulebook dozen of times, and maybe i'm grasping it just now...
 
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Ragh Gavar
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No, you total strength and defence for both frontline units and compare them. If you have enough strength to destroy the opposing frontline unit but can't shoot at it, but you can shoot at a unit supporting it, then you can kill the supporting unit.
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Robin Reeve
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Mordenthral wrote:
No, you total strength and defence for both frontline units and compare them. If you have enough strength to destroy the opposing frontline unit but can't shoot at it, but you can shoot at a unit supporting it, then you can kill the supporting unit.
That is how I understand the rule too.
 
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Tor Sverre Lund
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Mordenthral wrote:
parduz wrote:
What if i had an Assist unit?

Assist units are placed as support, by definition. If the attacker does not successfully kill supporting units, they must retreat after the battle.

A minor addition: if all defending units left alive are assist units, the battle is lost and the defender is forced to retreat instead. You need a surviving NON-assist unit to successfully defend the area. Took us a play or two to realize that :)
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Robin Reeve
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Gawain wrote:
A minor addition: if all defending units left alive are assist units, the battle is lost and the defender is forced to retreat instead.
... unless there are no surviving attackers in the area. In such a case, the defender wins and his units remain in place.
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Fabio Calzolari
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Well, thank you all. It is now clear. Sure there's a lot of exceptions (if...then... unless...) but now i can handle it.
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Carlo Patek
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Don't feel stupid.. Starcraft rules are.. huge
 
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Fabio Calzolari
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Kajo wrote:
Don't feel stupid.. Starcraft rules are.. huge

Yep. A friend told me that he have seen Starcraft already... but the guy who owned it is so slow at explaining rules (i know him) that they give up after 30min of explanations
 
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Martin Plourde
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parduz wrote:
Kajo wrote:
Don't feel stupid.. Starcraft rules are.. huge

Yep. A friend told me that he have seen Starcraft already... but the guy who owned it is so slow at explaining rules (i know him) that they give up after 30min of explanations


I found the best way to teach this game is to jump straight away with only basic rules, and give advices to the opponent on the first 2 or 3 turns, and explaining why I do this and that. He will make strategic mistakes, but he will learn the game by playing and remember why he lost.
 
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