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Subject: Command and Colors: Ancients Expansions rss

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David Jacobs
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I just got Command and Colors: Ancients and have a ton of fun playing the game. I love the historical background behind the ancient battles and the ease of the game play. I already want to get an expansion.

Which are the essential/best expansions to get? I would rather not buy every expansion unless they are needed for game play and also provide a great historical background.

Also, if there are any better ancient war games that are easy to learn but still have complexity and re-playability I am open for suggestions.

Thank you!
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Merric Blackman
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Hmm. Each C&C: A expansion builds to some extent on those that come before.

The first expansion "Greece and the Eastern Kingdoms" gives 21 scenarios

The second expansion "Rome and the Barbarians" gives 23 scenarios.

The third expansion "The Roman Civil Wars" requires the second expansion and adds 19 scenarios, as well as 4 Epic Scenarios (which require both previous expansions).

The fourth expansion "Imperial Rome" requires all previous expansions and adds 24 scenarios.

The fifth expansion "Epic Ancients" requires all previous expansions and adds 12 epic scenarios (as well as updating and changing the epic rules).

The sixth expansion "The Spartan Army" is on preorder from GMT Games; it will require Expansion 1 to play and includes over 20 scenarios.

As you can see, you generally need the earlier expansions to play the later ones.

Apart from C&C:A, the other ancients games I play are part of the Great Battles of History series, in particular SPQR (Deluxe Edition), The Great Battles of Alexander: Deluxe Edition and Chariots of Fire. Their rules are quite a bit more complicated than C&C:A, but the use of Simple GBoH makes them a lot more approachable, although still longer and more complex than C&C:A.

On the other hand, pretty much every wargame is longer and more complicated than C&C:A!

Cheers,
Merric
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Marco Wong
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The essential expansion is the second one as you get a mounted board in addition to the armies. The board alone would enhance your gaming experience very much.
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Jamie Vantries
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Lubi123 wrote:
The essential expansion is the second one as you get a mounted board in addition to the armies. The board alone would enhance your gaming experience very much.

The second expansions also has the cool heavy-less barbarian army.
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Mitch Willis
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I'd start with the first expansion, as it allows you to fight the early Greek-Persian battles, as well as those of Alexander the Great. Next I'd go with the 2nd expansion as it includes Caesar and Rome's fight with the Gauls, Celts, Germanic tribes and other so-called "Barbarian" tribes, along with another mounted mapboard to boot. You can pretty much determine from these 2 expansions if you want to take it any further...but be forewarned, CCA (and its expansions) can be addictive...
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Barry Kendall
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Agreed, first and second add the most interest for the buck, and the mounted map is well worth having to play upon.

Unfortunately "epic" only extends the maps the long way (so you end up with a VERY WIIIIDDDDE but narrow battlefield). Epic is fun for team play but I don't think it adds all that much for two-player games since it lacks the depth to make flank rides and cavalry-army swirls really interesting.

That said, I couldn't resist them all . . . .

. . . . and I keep hoping to see BIBLICAL ERA soon . . . it has to be out there somewhere waiting for a publisher.
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David Jacobs
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Thank you everyone for the comments and advice!

Merric, It sounds like it is best to get all of them in order! I think the next one I will get is the "Greece and the Eastern Kingdoms" because the Peloponnesian War is one of my favorites (along with Rome and Carthage and Greek Persian). I figured that other war games would be more complicated than C&C Ancients which is why I chose to enter into the world of war games with C&C. Now I am addicted! The problem is my girlfriend (who enjoys the C&C games) still finds them to be a little on the complicated side and if I went any more complicated, at least at this point, she wouldn't be able to play. So I guess I will wait on the complex games until later!

Marco, I purchased C&C:Ancients 3d edition which actually came with the mounted board. The second and third addition are currently out of print on GMT website separately but they sell expansions 2+3 without the mounted board together for a cheap price. Worth it? I do eventually want to do epic battles.

Mathew, Gotta love the heavy units!

Mitch, I think I have decided to get the first expansion. On GMT website expansions 2&3 are now sold together without the mounted board (which I got from my 3d C&C ancients). So is it worth it? I am already addicted to this game!

Barry, A biblical one would be awesome! Go through the major battles that occurred in biblical time, maybe even include Jerico. Throw in some of the key battles for ancient Jewish. Then come out with one that goes through the crusades.

One final question, and this may be a really noob one, but are there ever any competitions or conventions where a bunch of people get together and play wargames like C&C:Ancients?
 
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Mitch Willis
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starshadow wrote:
On GMT website expansions 2&3 are now sold together without the mounted board (which I got from my 3d C&C ancients). So is it worth it? I am already addicted to this game!


I'd say it's worth it...if you end up deciding you'd like to try epic battles later, you'd get another mounted mapboard when you ordered that expansion...

starshadow wrote:
One final question, and this may be a really noob one, but are there ever any competitions or conventions where a bunch of people get together and play wargames like C&C:Ancients?


I know they play (or have in the past) CCA tourneys at PrezCon and the WBC...I'd imagine it's popular enough that you wouldn't have any trouble playing open games at just 'bout any boardgaming con...

You might also want to check out the Wargameroom (http://www.wargameroom.com/). You download the CCA module there and play opponents on your PC (peer to peer)...the current version contains scenarios from the base game and the first expansion. They also have a CCA League that they play each year. There's also a Vassal module for CCA...I prefer the Wargameroom since their modules enforce the rules, but there are many who prefer Vassal...
 
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
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starshadow wrote:
I think I have decided to get the first expansion. On GMT website expansions 2&3 are now sold together without the mounted board (which I got from my 3d C&C ancients). So is it worth it? I am already addicted to this game!

Expansions 2 and 3 together is a good deal, indeed some of us had at the time asked for a re-packaging of the expansions after #5 came out. Since that one is the "Epic" one now, Exp#3 alone does not make much sense.

Thematically, and component wise, 2&3 together make a lot of sense. You get a huge number of scenarios and complete the different armies. If you want a 2nd board you should ask directly at GMT, sometimes they have spare components of games but don't add them to their products' page.

Exp#1 is my favorite, mainly because of the era (see my avatar) but also because it opens up a lot of combinations: Greek-Persian of course, but Greek-Roman and Persian-Roman too. Plus a few Carthaginian-Greek.

Exp#6 is supposed to be playable with Exp#1 only, since scenarios will be mainly Greek-Greek or Greek-Persian.
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Matthew M
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Moved to C&C:A forums

I've really enjoyed Command and Colors: Ancients - glad to hear it's still getting new fans

-MMM
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Todd Rewoldt
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Barry Kendall wrote:

Unfortunately "epic" only extends the maps the long way (so you end up with a VERY WIIIIDDDDE but narrow battlefield). Epic is fun for team play but I don't think it adds all that much for two-player games since it lacks the depth to make flank rides and cavalry-army swirls really interesting.


Not contradicting Barry - just disagreeing with him - but I find the Epic version (even the one in expansion 3, but certainly with the revised rules and command deck additions of expansion 5) to add a lot to the experience and enjoyment of playing C&C:Ancients with two players.

While the board isn't any deeper, the additional room to maneuver laterally does increase the value and impact of cavalry, and for my tastes does make them quite interesting.

Other than that, nothing really to add about what's been said regarding the expansions: Start with the first one, and then keep going as your fancy is suited. The mounted board in #2/3 is nice and I find Epic to be necessary.
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T
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There's some outdated information or misinformation in this thread.

The 3rd edition of the base game comes with a nice mounted map.

Expansion 1 is in print (Note that it doesn't have much Peloponnesian War action. It's most Greeks vs. Eastern Kingdoms. The Peloponnesian scenarios will probably be in Expansion #6 The Spartans when it comes out.)

Expansions 2 & 3 are out of print. GMT is going to reprint them in a single box, probably later this year. It will NOT include the mounted map for Epic CCA though.

Expansions 4 & 5 are still in print but do NOT contain a mounted map for Epic CCA. The mounted map is also out of print as an individual item available for purchase.

I'm currently trying to figure out how to get a mounted map if I buy Expansion 5 and want to play Epic CCA. Someone asked 2 or 3 times on the GMT forum on Consimworld about the mounted map but there was no response from GMT to any of his queries.
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BrentS
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otha62 wrote:


You might also want to check out the Wargameroom (http://www.wargameroom.com/). You download the CCA module there and play opponents on your PC (peer to peer)...the current version contains scenarios from the base game and the first expansion. They also have a CCA League that they play each year. There's also a Vassal module for CCA...I prefer the Wargameroom since their modules enforce the rules, but there are many who prefer Vassal...


For an alternative point of view I'm going to give my usual Vassal plug (I should just cut and paste ).

I've never tried Wargameroom.......I'm sure it's good....but I'm a huge fan of Vassal C&C:A for a number of reasons:

1. I'm not a big fan of rule enforcement. For me it feels like you're moving further away from the tabletop boardgame experience to a computer game and I believe interpreting and implementing the rules yourself, as you do in Vassal, leads to a deeper engagement with the game and understanding of the rules.

2. Not relevant to everyone but Wargameroom is only PC friendly.....Vassal works beautifully across all platforms (I'm a Mac user....one of the chief reasons I've never tried Wargameroom).

3. The Vassal module is simple, looks great and plays intuitively and cleanly. Bill has done a brilliant job. It also features almost all available scenarios, including all expansions, promo and C3i scenarios, Scenario X, and a separate, fully featured Epic module. Last I heard Wargameroom only had the base game and first expansion (although this may well have changed).

4. The online Vassal C&C:A community is fantastic. Quality players from all over the world, friendly, sporting and fair, with a regular schedule of tournaments featuring a wide range of scenarios across all formats.

Brent.
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mateenyweeny
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Just to get everyone's advice.
I'm new to the game, having fun just getting into it.
I had a really good experience with GMT and want to support them by buying something else.
From what I'm reading, it seems like it would be okay to skip Expansion 1 and just get on the P500 for 2+3. I'm in no rush as I still have lots of scenarios still to play with the base game.

Lots of scenarios is definitely a draw in getting 2+3 (already have the mounted board).

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
 
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mateenyweeny
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Joined in on the P500. Looks like I'm in for a long wait!
 
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brian
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slinkydink wrote:
Joined in on the P500. Looks like I'm in for a long wait!

P500 for reprints typically doesn't take as long as it does for an initial print run. Most of the time it is just to collect pre-orders while they get everything set up.
 
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mateenyweeny
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I hope so! It's not moving very fast though.
you think I'll be okay skipping Exp 1 (for now at least)?
 
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Mattias Andersson
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goshublue wrote:


2. Not relevant to everyone but Wargameroom is only PC friendly.....Vassal works beautifully across all platforms (I'm a Mac user....one of the chief reasons I've never tried Wargameroom).



The wargameroom client is a java program. It seems to work well on my mac.

/Mattias
 
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