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Subject: Herr Feld. Thanks, but now it's time to say goodbye rss

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Have you thought about using draw bags? Any time I have something other than cards that needs to be shuffled for a draw pile, I just use a Crown Royal bag.
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Steve K
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ldsdbomber wrote:
The somewhat muted ALEA looks and components have actually been a plus on the whole, until the visual monstrosity of Luna came along


Luna wasn't published by alea.

As for the tiles ... keep them seperate. Make a random pile of each colour back. No problem.

42 square tiles. Shuffle them around a bit, give 3 to each player, then make 5 stacks of 5. No problem.

ldsdbomber wrote:
Maybe this is shallow


No. Just odd. There really aren't that many tiles, and once you've punched them they pretty much look after themselves.

Aren't there roughly the same number of tiles in In the Year of the Dragon?
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Paul Lister
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Lee - DONT DO IT

I, like you, was a bit underwhelmed by the production quality (and I am colour blind to make it worse)

However there is a great game in there, give it a go and you might (as I have) forgive the production quality

It feel like there a load more chits than 'in the year of the dragon' and i'd suggest that the Alea format is stretched by this game - I think it could have done with a 'bigger' production

No doubt I will be debating (and playing) the production of the game with Steve K over this weekend at Eastbourne
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Christian Fuerst-Brunner
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I'm just using small, cheap organising boxes when the chits are "overwhelming". So the setup will take, what, 2 minutes for everything, incl. shuffling?

I did the same with the new Civilization, but needed a doublesized box for this monster!

If this litte annoyance prevents you from playing this real great game so be it. There are so many more good games out there ...

In the meantime, the organized people still enjoying DIE BURGEN VON BURGUND!
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Eric Rampson
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Step 1) Get 6 or 7 small plastic bags (1 for each of the 5 or 6 different colors and one for Black)

Step 2) Seperate the tiles by color.

Step 3) Put each group of tiles in its own bag.

Step 4) Easy setup (slightly longer tear down).

For the square tiles, repeat the same steps with the correct number of bags.
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Steve K
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Sorp222 wrote:
It feel like there a load more chits than 'in the year of the dragon'


Numerically, maybe. But I've convinced it takes longer to set up ityotd's person tiles (from one bag) than it does to setup BvB's hex tiles (from multiple bags). Delegate!

Sorp222 wrote:
No doubt I will be debating (and playing) the production of the game with Steve K over this weekend at Eastbourne


Oh, OK then.
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Steve K
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Scud-O wrote:
For the square tiles, repeat the same steps with the correct number of bags.


The correct number of bags would be 1.

The square goods tiles aren't seperated. They are all mixed up. Three to each player, then 5 piles of 5 for round/phase counters. The remainder are unused.
 
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Peter Moore
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Does it ever matter if you see the front when you pull a tile out of the bag? I don't think you would ever pull one out unless you were puting it face up on the board.
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Steve K
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Lee, I don't understand your comment about "flimsy" tiles.

As far as I can tell, they're the same thickness as person tiles in In the Year of the Dragon. OK - not the thickest ever in games, but standard alea production.

I really can't see how BvB gives you this sort of reaction (before you've even played the game) - especially when you say you like In the Year of the Dragon.

Still ... diferent strokes.

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Paul Lister
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SteveK2 wrote:
Lee, I don't understand your comment about "flimsy" tiles.

As far as I can tell, they're the same thickness as person tiles in In the Year of the Dragon. OK - not the thickest ever in games, but standard alea production.

I really can't see how BvB gives you this sort of reaction (before you've even played the game) - especially when you say you like In the Year of the Dragon.

Still ... diferent strokes.



No t wishing to answer for Lee or anticipate our debate over fish 'n chips. I'd agree that they are no more flimsy than the standard Alea production, it just , to me at least, felt more noticeable, given the scale of the game.
 
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Steve K
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Sorp222 wrote:
No t wishing to answer for Lee or anticipate our debate over fish 'n chips. I'd agree that they are no more flimsy than the standard Alea production, it just , to me at least, felt more noticeable, given the scale of the game.


Not sure what you mean by "scale" in this context. How does BvB differ in "scale" from (say) itYotD?
 
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Steve K
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Lee, Of course you're entitled to your opinion. I'm really just trying to encourage you to give BvB a go - I just wouldn't resort to shouting "DON'T DO IT" like Paul.

When rules talk of sorting and shuffling during setup, they don't always explain the simplest way to handle things. Often rules can make the simplest things sound a real pain.

For setup. itYotd needs 90 person tiles to be sorted into 15 different piles. With fewer than 5 players, you then need to remove some tiles. In my copy, these are all in one bag, and its a bit of a slog to sort them. We've found it easier if just one or two players sort.

BvB does need 164 hex tiles, but you don't really need to sort them. The actual setup can be reduced to pouring them out of the box and quickly ensuring they're all face down. Mix them up then draw the colours you need to place face up on the board at the start of each phase. To me, this actually feels quicker than itYotD, and can be done by multiple players.

Yes, BvB also has 42 goods tiles but again they could be left in a big pile and you could just draw 5 to place face up at the start of each phase. Here, you'd need something to record which of the 5 phases you're in because that's what the "pile of 5 tiles" normally do.

As for tile thickness, I've just put a person tile from itYotD beside a square goods tile from BvB, and they seem the same thickness. Mine are both alea copies.
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Steve K
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ldsdbomber wrote:
* In a 2P game we have less tiles and in their own bags, but theres no need to shuffle anything other than the 12 events so it doesnt feel like a faff to set up at all


Ahhh. OK. That would be quick. I generally play with 4 or 5 and never seen much benefit in keeping things in seperate bags. With more players, it's easier to delegate various setup jobs.
 
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ldsdbomber wrote:
yeah, I think I just needed to let off some steam but maybe I will take a deep breath and give it a try later this evening if the little one nods off :-)


Since all hexagonal tiles are placed face up, just place the tiles separated by color in bags, shake them and draw directly from the bags. That's what i do to decrease the setup time.

The game is very good to miss it...
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Paul Lister
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SteveK2 wrote:
Sorp222 wrote:
No t wishing to answer for Lee or anticipate our debate over fish 'n chips. I'd agree that they are no more flimsy than the standard Alea production, it just , to me at least, felt more noticeable, given the scale of the game.


Not sure what you mean by "scale" in this context. How does BvB differ in "scale" from (say) itYotD?


No of pieces , Player boards,the no of different tiles.
 
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Alan Goodrich
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Luna, a visual monstrosity? shake
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SteveK2 wrote:
As far as I can tell, they're the same thickness as person tiles in In the Year of the Dragon. OK - not the thickest ever in games, but standard alea production.

Exactly.
And as alea is a small one-man publisher with an extremely limited budget, there really isn't much one can do about it. Their games are designed for gamers, and doesn't generate enough sales to warrant Ravensburger to increase the budget.
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Paul Lister
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Great Dane wrote:
SteveK2 wrote:
As far as I can tell, they're the same thickness as person tiles in In the Year of the Dragon. OK - not the thickest ever in games, but standard alea production.

Exactly.
And as alea is a small one-man publisher with an extremely limited budget, there really isn't much one can do about it. Their games are designed for gamers, and doesn't generate enough sales to warrant Ravensburger to increase the budget.


Yes Alea make great gamer games, have a limited budget and do an amazing job - however it does not alter the fact that the graphic design is poor for this game, without perfect light and 20/20 vision the buildings and knowledge tiles are difficult to distinguish and for a colour blind gamer they are atrocious. These are not problems I have had with Alea games before (apart from the cubes in Macao). I have played it with another group and that's 7 out of 7 players in the two games who have had difficulty with the graphic design. However, the game is so good that it won't stop me playing it - its a great game that, in my opinion, needed better graphic design or to be published in a larger format.

EDITED 2 years later

Actually it's a really boring solitaire optimizer....



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Richard Ham
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Lee, all I can say is based on this thread, don't ever try First Train to Nuremberg. The set up in that game would cause you to completely melt down
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Brandon M
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I'm a little late to the discussion, but I'd like to add that you don't actually have to shuffle the dark green, grey and blue tiles.

I keep each color in a separate plastic bag, and each color can be shuffled by a different player before the game.

I hate shuffling tiles in general though.
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Mark Buckley
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Best thing to do is to get everyone to sort the pieces at the end as you take them off the board etc. Then you don't need to do it next time.
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Rogue Marechal
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Very late to the disussion, but I can both relate to the feeling of opening the box to discover so many bits to sort out, but with adequate storage, both the set up and seeding of times at the start of every phase is quick nd easy... so there is really no problem in respect to this in my book...
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Fernando Robert Yu
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RogueM wrote:
Very late to the disussion, but I can both relate to the feeling of opening the box to discover so many bits to sort out, but with adequate storage, both the set up and seeding of times at the start of every phase is quick nd easy... so there is really no problem in respect to this in my book...


Agreed. No issues at all.
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Josh Chen
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2 years late to the conversation.

I knew what I was getting into in the first place so I've bought a $2 plano box from Hobby Lobby in preparation for it. I still felt the setup was a bit slow to my taste so I've bit the bullet and ordered some low quality draw bags from Amazon and never a second did I regret that decision. I only need to save the plano box for the next Feld game. Heh.

meeple
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Bill Kunes
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It seems there are a number of us very late to the conversation... for what it's worth to anyone still looking for a solution to this, here is what we've done with the original insert that works well for us when we setup/cleanup the game:



The large section and the middle section contain the tiles that really need mixing and drawing througout the game. We just set the box next to the game on table, stir, draw, and place. No baggies required.
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