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Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization» Forums » Strategy

Subject: What bonus should I pick in first round? rss

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Jeremy Vipperman
United States
Tennessee
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I was first player in our last game. I picked up the Pyramids in turn zero. On real turn one, I turned over an event that gave you either 2 stone or 2 food. I picked 2 stone. Was that the right choice?

A couple of other events in the initial event pile gave some other choices as well. I was wanting some guidance on which might be a better choice. Picking a leader and/or wonder was already difficult enough in TtA.

Thanks.
 
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Mikael Ölmestig
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Pyramids is a solid choice in most situations. More civil actions give more flexibility (more actions, digging deeper in the card eg.). Most players prefer stone over food in the game, but that depends on the strategy.
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
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JeremyVipp wrote:
I was first player in our last game. I picked up the Pyramids in turn zero. On real turn one, I turned over an event that gave you either 2 stone or 2 food. I picked 2 stone. Was that the right choice?

A couple of other events in the initial event pile gave some other choices as well. I was wanting some guidance on which might be a better choice. Picking a leader and/or wonder was already difficult enough in TtA.

Thanks.

There are very few instances where one would choose food in that case. Choosing minerals, so you can build Pyramids more quickly, is almost always the best choice.
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howl hollow howl
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Plus, by choosing food, you will be forced to spend CAs to use it (so as to avoid corruption), and all too soon hit 1 consumption, losing the food you just gained.

There have been times when I've used that Age A event for food... but not at so early a turn.
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D K
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For Wonders I take the Pyramids first, then the Hanging Gardens..

I will take one of those two wonders over any leader,

otherwise I take Aristotle, Moses, and Caeser (I
 
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jonas havreglid
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So does most people I guess. It's a bit bland.
 
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Andrew E
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I'll take pyramids over a good leader, but not hanging gardens over one. Of course, if the board is set such that I can take hanging gardens and then be guaranteed a good leader on turn 1, I'll do that too.

For food vs resources, resources are the default. Unless your position is such that you really need food for whatever reason, take the resources, because there's several ways to spend a ton of resources in age 1 without needing more people, one of which, building a wonder, you already have lined up.
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Eric Phillips
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AndrewE wrote:
I'll take pyramids over a good leader, but not hanging gardens over one. Of course, if the board is set such that I can take hanging gardens and then be guaranteed a good leader on turn 1, I'll do that too.


Especially if there's a chance that good leader will be Moses. He has nice synergy with the HG.

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For food vs resources, resources are the default. Unless your position is such that you really need food for whatever reason, take the resources


Another reason I'll take food sometimes is if I see that I'm going to end up with one or two blue beads stranded on my Agriculture card when my food production shuts off at the end of Age I. If taking two food from Development of Markets allows me to prevent that (by giving me enough food to stage another guy) I'll usually do it.
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Andrew E
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Especially if there's a chance that good leader will be Moses. He has nice synergy with the HG.

Interestingly, my biggest fear when pulling that gambit is that I'll be left with Moses. I simply don't understand why people think Moses and the HG go together. (well, I do, but I don't think they're thinking it through enough).

It appears they go together because Moses creates a bunch of workers and the HG gives happiness.

But happiness isn't really why the HG is good. There are other routes to happiness. HG is good because it gives you that happiness without consuming a worker. Moses gets all the workers he needs without lifting a finger, so it seems to me that this bonus is mostly wasted, or at least doesn't pay off until much later.

Frankly, with Moses, I like the no wonder opening, which gives me 6 extra rocks to spend on making all those early people do useful stuff for me. If I can get the Pyramids on turn 0 or for 1 CA, sure, I'll do that too just because it's so strong, but with Moses, I'm usually spending a lot of time figuring out how to leverage all these people asap.
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Brian Schroth
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Can't you just delay construction of HG until you've used up your opportunities for using your Moses workers?
 
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Tim Seitz
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BagelManB wrote:
Can't you just delay construction of HG until you've used up your opportunities for using your Moses workers?

Not really, to fully utilize your newly emancipated Israelites, you will need some form of happiness. If you build a temple first, then it sort of defeats the purpose of Hanging Gardens.
 
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Eric Phillips
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AndrewE wrote:
But happiness isn't really why the HG is good. There are other routes to happiness. HG is good because it gives you that happiness without consuming a worker. Moses gets all the workers he needs without lifting a finger, so it seems to me that this bonus is mostly wasted, or at least doesn't pay off until much later.


If you need two workers dedicated to Happiness production by the end of Age I, then Moses is giving you what amounts to one extra worker instead of two. If you don't need any workers dedicated to Happiness production by the end of Age I, you end up with three extra workers instead of two.
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Brian Schroth
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out4blood wrote:
BagelManB wrote:
Can't you just delay construction of HG until you've used up your opportunities for using your Moses workers?

Not really, to fully utilize your newly emancipated Israelites, you will need some form of happiness. If you build a temple first, then it sort of defeats the purpose of Hanging Gardens.


It sounds like you're responding to someone else's post. The guy I was responding to was saying he didn't like HG + Moses because he'd rather build units/labs/mines/farms with his early resources to make use of the extra workers Moses gives than spend them on a wonder that doesn't need workers.

It seems that for someone pursuing that strategy, HG would be a great wonder, you just wouldn't build it quickly. You could spend your resources on buildings/units, and then when you ran out of workers to do that with or the age was drawing to an end you could finish HG and get your unhappy guys back so you stay in the clear for workers in the start of Age II.
 
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Andrew E
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You can't delay building the HG until you've used up your extra Moses workers, because you simply don't make enough rocks fast enough to both use them up and still build HG in age 1. I suppose you would if you don't get either iron or alchemy, but that's not exactly a goal to strive for.

Whether I have Moses or not, the plan with HG is almost invariably to build it on the last turn of age 1, because I'd rather delay it as long as possible so I can get other stuff earlier.

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If you need two workers dedicated to Happiness production by the end of Age I, then Moses is giving you what amounts to one extra worker instead of two. If you don't need any workers dedicated to Happiness production by the end of Age I, you end up with three extra workers instead of two.

Why would you need 2 workers dedicated to happiness by the end of age 1? I mean, if you don't have HG, you're going to be eying those happiness techs just like everyone else, and probably moreso.

Moses gives you about 2 workers, HG gives you another and the luxury to wait for an age 2 happiness tech if you like. Those just aren't benefits that synergize, like Aristotle + pyramids or alchemy, or Caesar or Moses + Colossus or cartography.

Moses + irrigation synergizes, since it lets you use Moses more before he dies, but I've noted elsewhere that I don't think taking advantage of that possibility is worth the opportunity cost.
 
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Eric Phillips
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AndrewE wrote:
Why would you need 2 workers dedicated to happiness by the end of age 1? I mean, if you don't have HG, you're going to be eying those happiness techs just like everyone else, and probably moreso.


If you've gotten two extra workers out of Moses, there's a good chance you've emptied the second region of your Yellow Bank. At least, that's what I try to do when I have Moses. So when you lose the two beads at the end of Age I, you'll need three happy faces.
 
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Jeff Bridgham
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JeremyVipp wrote:
I was first player in our last game. I picked up the Pyramids in turn zero. On real turn one, I turned over an event that gave you either 2 stone or 2 food. I picked 2 stone. Was that the right choice?

A couple of other events in the initial event pile gave some other choices as well. I was wanting some guidance on which might be a better choice. Picking a leader and/or wonder was already difficult enough in TtA.

Thanks.


Just a question; On what I would call real turn one (the first turn after everyone just takes cards from the card row and produces) noone should be turning over an event. You couldn't get any military cards in turn zero since you don't have any military actions.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean by real turn one?
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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The more I play Moses, the more I think its strength lies in speed rather in quantity. I try to get as much peons as fast as possible and switch to an age I leader by mid age I. That's why Frugality cards are highly valuable when you have Moses.

For instance, I love to switch to Leonardo who gives me extra rocks to use the peons.
 
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stephen biggs
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JeremyVipp wrote:
I was first player in our last game. I picked up the Pyramids in turn zero. On real turn one, I turned over an event that gave you either 2 stone or 2 food. I picked 2 stone. Was that the right choice?

I'd agree it was.
An age-A wonder uses 3 turns of initial mineal production. And early in the game you want to invest your minerals in creating more production. So if your building an age-A wonder you want your other choices to boost available minerals.
Age-A wonders tend to achieve effects that otherwise need people so boosting food production becomes less advantagous.
 
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Jack Rudd
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tublefou wrote:
The more I play Moses, the more I think its strength lies in speed rather in quantity. I try to get as much peons as fast as possible and switch to an age I leader by mid age I. That's why Frugality cards are highly valuable when you have Moses.

For instance, I love to switch to Leonardo who gives me extra rocks to use the peons.


Yeah, Moses to Leonardo is a good switch, as I mentioned in my blog post on Leonardo.
 
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