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Mansions of Madness» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question on Darkness counters (minor spoilers) rss

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Jens Kreutzer
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So scenario 4 has the Keeper action "Darkness", which will soon have a lot of rooms become dark (receive a darkness counter). A question came up when the obstacle card "Power Failure" was encountered in a room that was already dark.

The obstacle instructs the player to "place a darkness counter in your room". Can a room have an additional marker? This is important because when you solve the puzzle, it instructs you to "discard this card and the darkness marker".

Which will happen?

- Only one darkness marker can be placed in a room, so Power Failure does not place an additional one. When the puzzle is solved, this one counter is still removed. Result: The room is not dark anymore.

- Only one darkness marker can be placed in a room, so Power Failure does not place an additional one. When the puzzle is solved, this one counter is not removed because the obstacle says "discard the darkness marker [that was placed by Power Failure]", not the one that was already there. Result: The room is still dark.

- A second darkness marker can be placed in a room, so Power Failure does place an additional one. When the puzzle is solved, this second counter is removed, but not the first. Result: The room is still dark.

I can't find anything about multiple counters in the rules.

 
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V W
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I think the RAI is clearly on the side of interpretation 2, as that's the one that makes most sense. When you blow up someone's lightbulb and then cut the power, turning the power back on doesn't make the lightbulb go again.

RAW I would be more inclined to go with interpretation 3, but then we have to also assume that tokens do not stack their effects when there are multiple tokens in the same area, as that similarly leads to absurdities.

So yeah, I'd go with interpretation 2 (or 3 treated as 2, which is functionally the same except you need more components, but there are no token limitations in game). Could probably do with an official answer, but I think anyone but the most stubborn of rules lawyers could see the RAI here.

EDIT: Took a good look at the manual, the closest I can find is "An investigator or monster may have multiple stun tokens on him,
and may only discard one per turn." This sounds like a case of a specific rule intended to override the general rule, but I cannot find the general rule. As mentioned, I'd go with interpretation 2 because it's most logical and best for game design, but if you feel you need an official ruling then it's probably worth sending away.
 
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Milan Mašát
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This is one of the places where I will go against the rules, but follow common sense.
There cannot be second darkness token. When the darkness can not be destroyed, why to solve the puzzle? Yet it has to be solved to carry on.
I vote for option 1.
I thing that by rules the option 2 is valid.
 
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Jacob Ossar
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A friend describes a similar situation, where an investigator encountered a power failure while holding the Lantern item, which allows you to ignore darkness. Since the Power Failure was on top of other cards, it would seem that she'd have to solve the puzzle to get at the other cards beneath it. But if the problem was that the power failure made it too dark to find those cards, it'd seem like the lantern would fix that problem. Rules > common sense here, I guess.
 
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Alex Coco
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I haven't played this scenario yet, but in thinking about the situation as the keeper I would go with #1. My rationale is that the room's darkness is thematically linked to the power failure, the investigator's just didn't know that until entering the room. Similarly linked is the relative "hiddeness" of the exploration cards underneath, meaning that an investigator with a torch still can't find the objects even though he's otherwise unaffected by the darkness of the room.
 
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Milan Mašát
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jossar wrote:
A friend describes a similar situation, where an investigator encountered a power failure while holding the Lantern item, which allows you to ignore darkness. Since the Power Failure was on top of other cards, it would seem that she'd have to solve the puzzle to get at the other cards beneath it. But if the problem was that the power failure made it too dark to find those cards, it'd seem like the lantern would fix that problem. Rules > common sense here, I guess.

In your situation I am afraid that common sense will lead to discarding the obstacle. I do not thing it is meant to be "cheated" such easily.
 
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Jens Kreutzer
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Thanks for your answers. I also tend towards no. 2 and will use it in the meantime.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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jossar wrote:
A friend describes a similar situation, where an investigator encountered a power failure while holding the Lantern item, which allows you to ignore darkness. Since the Power Failure was on top of other cards, it would seem that she'd have to solve the puzzle to get at the other cards beneath it. But if the problem was that the power failure made it too dark to find those cards, it'd seem like the lantern would fix that problem. Rules > common sense here, I guess.


The lantern would allow you to ignore the darkness TOKEN, but the obstacle card remains on top of the cards.

As cards are explored in order, you would still need to solve the power failure puzzle to discard the obstacle and therefore pick up the cards below it.

Not 100% thematic (although you could come up with some creative "excuse" for why you need the power back on), but following the rules, that's got to be how you play it.

As for the "double darkness" situation - I think you have to treat it as two separate dark events - solving the puzzle would remove the darkness created by that puzzle, but the other darkness token would remain - "You fix the wiring with trembling fingers, the lights flicker , and yet... the room remains wrapped in unnatural darkness."
 
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