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Wings of War: Famous Aces» Forums » General

Subject: Identifying the Decks with Identical Backs rss

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Ian Luxmoore
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We played a game last night of WoW with 2 planes each and each of us had an A damage plane and a B damage plane. Since the damage decks were common we left them in the middle but because the reverse side of the decks is identical between decks, it was problematic identifying which was which. We have also occasionally got mixed up between manoeuvre decks because the reverse side of those is identical as well.

Thinking about it there doesn't seem to be any need for the manouvre decks or the damage decks to be indistinguishable from the back although I could be missing something obvious?

It seems it would make life a lot easier if they had clear indications on the back, something like these (which I modified from binraix's images):



I am surprised I couldn't find other mentions of this so it is quite likely I am missing something very obvious! How have other people managed this?

Cheers
Ginarley
 
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Michael Sweazey
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I was just organizing my supplies tonight, and I noticed that there are small letters denoting which set the cards come from on the lower right corner of the front. BB for Balloon Busters, RD for the Revised Deluxe Edition, etc. Now, I was contemplating whether it was worth keeping the components separate or not.

I was tempted to separate all the maneuvre decks, damage decks, plane cards, and tokens, but there might be a reason to keep the sets together. I too would like to hear some insight into this.

Thanks,
Michael
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Rick Rodrick
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I use small 3X5 envelopes for every deck. I haven't had any problem with cards from decks getting mixed up during the game. They are all pretty different either in size (of the deck) or the lower right corner ID. If you wanted to change the backs so they were different you could easily use a sleeve and put a new back in with cards/decks that needed one.
 
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Andrew Hurp
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I mentioned this recently concerning the damage decks (manauver decks I keep in seperate 3x5 bags as well, to quickly organise and hand out). The designer posted:
Quote:
The final decision not to put letters on the back, neither on maneuvre nor on damage cards, is that this allows people to customize decks as they want, mixing cards from different decks if they prefer so, to cover homemade airplane/armaments or even customized rules (great pilots, marksmans...). Wise or not, that's the reason.

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Bartman
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Interesting point Andrew on the customization of maneuver decks. I hadn't heard that before.

As for the damage decks, my understanding is that they are the same so as to not give the opponent an idea as to just how damaged your plane is. For instance given a familiarity with the game, 8 cards of 'A' damage is not the same as the same number of 'B' damage (probability-wise).

Bartman
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Ian Luxmoore
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Fabs wrote:
I mentioned this recently concerning the damage decks (manauver decks I keep in seperate 3x5 bags as well, to quickly organise and hand out). The designer posted:
Quote:
The final decision not to put letters on the back, neither on maneuvre nor on damage cards, is that this allows people to customize decks as they want, mixing cards from different decks if they prefer so, to cover homemade airplane/armaments or even customized rules (great pilots, marksmans...). Wise or not, that's the reason.



Makes sense for the manoeuvre decks I suppose but less so for the damage decks imo. I keep my cards separated in small bags which works well, unless you have the A/B decks on the board when it is less obvious.

A solution we came up with tonight was to make A and B counters to put above the decks. I am tempted to make a small cardboard card holder for all four damage decks to make life even easier.
 
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Ian Luxmoore
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bartman53d wrote:
Interesting point Andrew on the customization of maneuver decks. I hadn't heard that before.

As for the damage decks, my understanding is that they are the same so as to not give the opponent an idea as to just how damaged your plane is. For instance given a familiarity with the game, 8 cards of 'A' damage is not the same as the same number of 'B' damage (probability-wise).

Bartman


That did cross my mind for the damage decks but then I thought that the source of the damage isn't hidden information, only the value on the card, so if your opponent is good enough to make different moves based on the distribution of damage cards in the first place then they are probably good enough to remember where the damage came from
 
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Andrew Hurp
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Ginarley wrote:
Makes sense for the manoeuvre decks I suppose but less so for the damage decks imo. I keep my cards separated in small bags which works well, unless you have the A/B decks on the board when it is less obvious.

A solution we came up with tonight was to make A and B counters to put above the decks. I am tempted to make a small cardboard card holder for all four damage decks to make life even easier.

My solution is to use the mini-player boards that came with Flight of the Giants. I use 2 boards at one side of the gaming table, with the damage decks across them in order A, B, C, D (if all are required).
As I use a triple A deck and double B deck, they don't get moved around much during the game and I think most people can remember the sequence A, B, C, D very easily (I say most people as i can guarentee I'll play with someone soon who has to keep asking 'Which one's the B deck, again?')
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Kevin Duke
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While I understand not making the backs of the damage decks different, I certainly think making the front different would help. Since red numbers were used for A damage, I had hoped they would use blue numbers for the B deck. (Since there are a number of languages in which the word "blue" begins with the letter B.)
The problem is in rebuilding the decks after play ends, or reusing the damage cards when a plane has been shot down.

I have used a blue highlighter to make a "splash" stripe of blue across the short side of the B deck. It's not pretty and some others might find something better-- maybe a close-fitting sticker would do it.

But that makes it quick to sort A and B damage from each other as needed.

For large games, I will have separate damage decks for the German and the Allied side, with each side drawing from only their deck. That makes the available damage "even" and makes it easier to reconstitute the decks when a scenario ends.

I also usually hold out the "explosion" cards until play has gone on for several turns-- it's so sad having a big scenario and someone gets blown out on the very first shot. So I will either wait for 5 or 6 turns or 4 or 5 rounds of fire and then 'announce' that I am adding the explosion cards to the newly shuffled decks.

Over time I've accumulated some extra decks or picked up cards from broken decks and created additional explosion or "high damage" cards, which can be interesting to add to the decks late in the scenario.
 
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Michael Sweazey
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Sorta', kinda' related...

I have been able to do the collecting phase without having been able to do much of the playing phase so far. I'm up to 22 miniatures, the RDE, Burning Drachens, WYB, Balloon Busters, and a few deck expansions.

When you store all your cards and tokens, is there an advantage to keeping the materials for your different core sets and expansions together, or do you store all your tokens, A-decks, B-decks, and maneuver decks stored with each other. (I.E. all K maneuver decks together, all M Decks, etc.)

Thanks,
Michael
 
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Michel van Peenen
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msweazey wrote:
Sorta', kinda' related...

I have been able to do the collecting phase without having been able to do much of the playing phase so far. I'm up to 22 miniatures, the RDE, Burning Drachens, WYB, Balloon Busters, and a few deck expansions.

When you store all your cards and tokens, is there an advantage to keeping the materials for your different core sets and expansions together, or do you store all your tokens, A-decks, B-decks, and maneuver decks stored with each other. (I.E. all K maneuver decks together, all M Decks, etc.)

Thanks,
Michael

I only keep my maneuver decks all separate because that makes it easier if two people want to use the same deck.
The rest of the decks have all been compiled to one big deck per sort.

I only have Burning Drachens, Famous Aces, the small card expansions and the unofficial King Kong expansion.
Until today every thing barely fitted in my Burning Drachens box, all cards sleeved (yes I am a sleever and proud of it ) and in ziplocks.
But today I found some small plastic boxes which can hold one sleeved maneuver deck. I now have all my planes and A damage deck in five "high" boxes and all the other decks in several "low" boxes. This takes up a little more space so now everything fits in my Famous Aces and Burning Drachens boxes.
If I have time I will take a picture and post it in the images section.
 
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Michel van Peenen
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kduke wrote:
While I understand not making the backs of the damage decks different, I certainly think making the front different would help. Since red numbers were used for A damage, I had hoped they would use blue numbers for the B deck. (Since there are a number of languages in which the word "blue" begins with the letter B.)
The problem is in rebuilding the decks after play ends, or reusing the damage cards when a plane has been shot down.

I have used a blue highlighter to make a "splash" stripe of blue across the short side of the B deck. It's not pretty and some others might find something better-- maybe a close-fitting sticker would do it.

But that makes it quick to sort A and B damage from each other as needed.


To me the front of the damage decks are different enough, in the bottomleft corner the cards denote if they are from an A B C or D deck. I just use those to sort the cards quickly.
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Kevin Duke
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Given that this A/B letter is in about 2.25 pt, very fine line, sans serif type, it's not really "quickly" for me.

Note for Michael:

I don't see any "keep it separate" value unless you somehow know the game contents very well and that is a fast way for you to sort.

I use zip bags that hold the card decks loosely but don't let them turn. Each maneuver deck has the planes that match this deck,and if a maneuver deck works for both German/Allied planes, I have gotten enough dupes to be exclusive there. I keep the planes on the 'ends' of the decks, peeking out from either side, so if I want Alb. D3s I can find a zip bag with them peeking at me, or N-17s or Spad 13s or whatever.

The zip bags are large enough to include the miniatures' base as well, so I keep those with a deck that matches the plane (and keep all the pins in a single bag, since those interchange.) It makes for pretty fast 'find them' to get started and does not take that long to put up either.

One tip for minies players in a big game is keeping the 'card' for the plan on their control panel, to help remember which one is theirs-- and it is handy if you need to put it on the table as a place holder.

Back before minies, I got dupes of most planes and would give each player 2 for each plane, one to keep as a reminder of what the plane in play looked like. (Sorry, that may sound absurdly basic, but I've done a lot of demos to first time players and, except for all-red planes, folks sometimes struggle to remember).
 
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Keith U.
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Separating the different types of damage decks after the game is pretty easy since they have the letters on them. When running larger games, we had problems with sorting out multiple copies of the same damage deck (we sometimes use up to 4 A damage decks in a game). To help with this, I placed a mark on the back of each card in a deck. The next deck of that type got two marks and so on. So, now I have Damage Deck A-1, A-2, and A-3.

I ended up doing the same thing to the maneuver decks to help keep them separated when more then one type of the same plane is flying.

As for the other part of the thread about mixing components, I see no need to keep them separate other then the decks.

All my damage decks go in this:



The planes and their components go in one of these:



All the counters, altitude pegs and other bits go in one of these boxes:

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