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Frontline: D-Day» Forums » General

Subject: Why So Little Love For Guadalcanal? rss

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A.T. Selvaggio
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I am planning to play my first game of FL DDay tomorrow. I saw on the DVG site that the next release is on preorder, but there are not that many orders. This looks like a great game, with the exception of a few minor rough spots mentioned on this forum. What gives? Is the lack of interest in GC an indication of dissatisfaction with DDay or the system or us it attribuatable to something else?
 
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Sean McCormick
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DVG is a small publisher, and I think it's to be expected that their numbers go up fairly slowly. While I have a couple of niggles with the game, I think the system has a lot of promise, and I'll probably put down a pre-order once the number gets a little closer.
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A.T. Selvaggio
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seanmac wrote:
DVG is a small publisher, and I think it's to be expected that their numbers go up fairly slowly. While I have a couple of niggles with the game, I think the system has a lot of promise, and I'll probably put down a pre-order once the number gets a little closer.


Yes, there is that preorder psychology at play. DVG seems to really care about making quality war-games for the solo player, at a low to moderate complexity level and with a good dose of theme. This is my sweet spot. So I will likely dive in too, but I understand those who hold out until a preorder is closer to maturing. It stinks to have a preorder hanging out there for years.
 
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Lehr
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I think a lot of people do not even know it is available for preorder. There may also be some who are waiting to see if some of the "rough spots" mentioned about D-Day are addressed in Guadalcanal.
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Vasilis
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I like Frontline but I think that it needs a little bit more complexity to hit my sweet spot. As it is right now it's a bit too light.

Some already mentioned points:

a} Units need to maneuver more before starting to exchange fire.

b} Tanks don't really have to move at all since they have the same Firepower in every range step. This is strange.

c} Counter-attacks are not that effective and this creates the impression that the game is too deadly. I don't really have a proposed rule for this situation but I think that counter-attacks need to be more effective somehow.

d} I'd really like to see some "MISS" counters on the mix that just add more tension and make the attacks less deadly in the process.

e} I think that it really hurts that Pin counters have to be replaced with Morale counters after the first one. I'd remove that rule. After all a unit that is Pinned is more protected than a unit which is not.

So my suggestion is to ignore all Pin counters that a unit receives after the first one. They just mitigate Firepower. I don't think that this is a bad rule change. I do think however that using both {d} and {e} rules will make combat non-lethal. Just one of them would be fine.
I am already using the Pin rule for my games.

f} One other thing that I didn't like very much is the fact that the ranges are divided in pairs. Why Range 0 and range 1 provide the same Firepower? Same for 2-3, 4-5 and 6-7. I don't know if this can be fixed somehow but it would be great if there was an actual difference between these ranges.


g} Finally I'd like to see a refinement to the solo rules because the system has promise but right now the AI gets too many Firepower bonuses and this combined with the very lethal combat system as it is right now makes some sessions un-enjoyable.

Moreover the AI can be tricked by the player when he starts to use his first and more useless Sections to Prepare in order to flip some AI sections to Acted, so that he can use his best sections to overkill the AI section who now cannot do anything because they have Acted.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S. Unfortunately, Guadalcanal will be a stand-alone game. If it was an expansion it would be easier to add some new counters and implementing new rules to D-Day too like FFG does with their expansions when they change the ruleset to fix some mechanics or add new ones.
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Scott Key
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Quote:
It stinks to have a preorder hanging out there for years.


I pre-paid. Maybe I shouldn't have.
 
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nolan Guthrie
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I think the Love is there, I was a D day pre orderer and I only just found out about GC the other day. I only found out about it because I was board and started scanning all the publishers I have bookmarked. I thought I might try taking on the DVG pre order geeklist. I don't think they are getting much exposure.
Nolan
 
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nolan Guthrie
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If I recal it took D day a long time to come out also.
Nolan
 
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nolan Guthrie
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Yeah so I went ahead and made that geklist.
Hope no one minds.
Nolan
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/65797/dan-verssen-games-pr...
 
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Scott Key
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Thank you. But where's FL: Guadalcanal?
 
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nolan Guthrie
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Scott Pasha wrote:
Thank you. But where's FL: Guadalcanal?

As I mentioned in the header there is no BGG listing for it yet. At least that I could find. I messaged Dan Verssen to see if he has submitted them and we are waiting for approval or if he hasn't submitted yet.
Nolan
 
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Scott Key
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Whoops...
Thanks again for your work
 
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Dan Verssen
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The plan is to finish Napoleon in the next week or two, then dive into the Guadalcanal design. We're hoping that as we post new info, pre-orders will climb to the point of sending it to the printer in summer.
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Jorge Arroyo
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Bowmangr wrote:
Moreover the AI can be tricked by the player when he starts to use his first and more useless Sections to Prepare in order to flip some AI sections to Acted, so that he can use his best sections to overkill the AI section who now cannot do anything because they have Acted.


Actually when you prepare on your turn, the AI gets a card but doesn't flip any section to "acted". There are ways to take advantage of the AI but not so blatant and they counter balance the extra bonuses it gets with the AI cards...
 
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Vasilis
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maka wrote:
Bowmangr wrote:
Moreover the AI can be tricked by the player when he starts to use his first and more useless Sections to Prepare in order to flip some AI sections to Acted, so that he can use his best sections to overkill the AI section who now cannot do anything because they have Acted.


Actually when you prepare on your turn, the AI gets a card but doesn't flip any section to "acted". There are ways to take advantage of the AI but not so blatant and they counter balance the extra bonuses it gets with the AI cards...


This is still a matter of debate and I was actually one of those people that understood the rules exactly as you mentioned at first but after seeing some of Dan's responses in Consimworld and BGG forums I found out that this is actually wrong.

I think that it is still unclear to many Frontline players and I'd really like a definitive answer.

For now I know that when the player Prepares, the AI draws a card, executes the top two rows on the card and flips the section to Acted. If this is not true I'd like to know about it. I'm pretty sure that maybe a 50% of the players play that way and another 50% play with the way that you described.
This has not been clarified in an official way except some scattered answers from Dan in the forums.
 
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Sean McCormick
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I don't see how you would flip a section to acted, as you never get to the point where you actually select a section. You simply read the general instructions on the top of the card.
 
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Vasilis
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seanmac wrote:
I don't see how you would flip a section to acted, as you never get to the point where you actually select a section. You simply read the general instructions on the top of the card.


Again, this is what I thought when I started playing but it was asked again and again at Consimworld and Dan said among other things that it does flip.

Thus I started playing with the official rule.

I'll try to find the original discussion. There was even a person who made a player aid and had it that it does not flip to Acted, then asked Dan specifically for this and he had it corrected afterwards.

I'll find the original discussion later because now I'm at work. It would be nice if Dan answered this again as I really am curious which is actually the correct rule.

This is a thing that was never clarified 100%.



EDIT: OK, here it is:
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?13@409.MznGcR86adO.4@.1dd08...

#4226
and answer
#4227

then
#4229
and
Dan' answer
#4230

You can also check the previous messages for the whole conversation or you can continue reading to find the person asking the same question in order to use it in his player aid.
 
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Jeffrey D Myers
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Thanks, Vasilis, I like your proposed PIN house rule....
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Lehr
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DanVerssen wrote:
The plan is to finish Napoleon in the next week or two, then dive into the Guadalcanal design. We're hoping that as we post new info, pre-orders will climb to the point of sending it to the printer in summer.


Are there any updated Frontline series rules available for us to try?

If so, are they compatible with the Frontline: D-Day components?
 
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Scott Key
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Quote:

We're looking at redesigning the Frontline game system, starting with Guadalcanal, to be a pure solitaire series.

Backstory on our thoughts...

We wanted Frontline to be an Upfront-like game, but with lower complexity. We thought that such a game would be hugely successful. As it turned out, Frontline did okay, but not great.

It also turned out that most people like to play the game solitaire. The solitaire rules work, but it is not a dedicated solitaire game, like a Leader game or Field Commander game.

Our thoughts have been to design a ground solitaire game at the Frontline scale or maybe a little larger where you are working with small scale combat. Each card might be an individual soldier, or maybe represent a squad of soliders and feature the squad leader's name.

Nothing firm yet. We're still kicking the idea around.

From Dan on ConSimworld Nov 11,2011
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Lehr
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Thanks for the info Scott.
 
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Emily Grimes
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This is sad.I think the game is great!I was very much looking forward to the next one
 
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Drake Coker
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While I love DVG games in general and pre-order many of them, Frontline D-Day fell pretty flat for me. As a result, I've avoided pre-ordering Guadalcanal. I really want to like the game, but I just don't. Too deadly and seemingly unbalanced in its treatment of long-range weaponry (e.g. snipers, mortars). While "Up Front lite" sounds great in theory, I ended up just liking Up Front much better than this title.

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