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Subject: Thoughts after three plays rss

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n Mzi
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Hello,

A friend and I have just played the first three scenarios of the game. We are both experienced players of Space Hulk, so this is the first comparison that comes to mind. I will not make a systematic comparison, but I will not be able to avoid some...

Gameplay Fluidity
Overall, the game plays quite fast and well, though I would have preferred the booklet to have an index. A reference sheet will be a must to enhance the fun of your first plays: you should consider it if you try the game.

Depth
Nevertheless, the first three scenarios lack the tactical depth I admire in SH. I think it is mainly related to the following design choices:
1/ The rules are simpler than SH's and I think it also hampers the complexity I normally expect from that kind of game: there should be more options, and there could have been more without making the game too difficult to grasp.
2/ Combats are HtH combats and you cannot breakaway without suffering a free hack. It means you are likely to get stuck if you do not kill your target, which deprives you from a lot of alternatives.
3/ Model orientation is irrelevant while moving. You never have to think about it before the end of your movement.
4/ You are never allowed to react during your opponent turn... This is plain IGOUGO.
On my scale of tactical depth, this reads: Heroquest < DKH < Space Hulk < Hybrid < Earth Reborn. I have not played Descent, but the guy who has played with me had the feeling it had about the same level of depth, though being much simpler and much faster to play.

Balance
The game is scenario-driven. It means that balance has to be evaluated for each scenario rather than each force. Except for the first game, which was a piece of cake for the dwarves because of the odds, the winner has had a really hard time. I seems that the 2nd and 3rd scenarios are balanced. Of course, I have not played enough to be 100% certain about that.

Luck Factor
Dwarves and skeletons are played in a really different way and each side has its own way of controlling luck.
You will throw a lot of dice and luck can be slightly controlled by overwhelming your opponent's models with yours. This means the Necromancer has a better control over the dice, because he can significantly reduce the dice thrown by his opponent.
You will also draw a lot of action tokens. In this case, the dwarves are in control, because they have more of them and they have more flexibility.
Though luck seems to be controlled, the dwarf player has really fewer model and he can loose one of them against a single skeleton if he is not lucky.

Ergonomics
Not quite as good as I would have wanted. The tiles tend to slip. However, since the miniatures are not too big, they fit well in the squares (again, this is not Space Hulk...).

Fun Factor (personal view)
I am sad to admit that the game has disappointed me. Still, the game design is good, and it would be fun to play with someone not willing to think too much, but it feels a bit too shallow for me, as least as far as the first three scenarios are concerned.
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Cracky McCracken
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but what about the dog-grenades?!? are they cool?

thanks for the review. i really wish Games Workshop would get off their asses and make products like this for use with Warhammer minis. Space Hulk 3ed really is a brilliant game on all levels, it would be nice to have it's equivilant for the fantasy side.

have you painted any of the minis yet? how do they compare to GW models?
 
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n Mzi
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(dog grenades?)

I still have tons of metal minis to paint before I can manage the dwarf crew!

The following is my personal feeling about the models. Some of you are likely not to share it; I would suggest to open another thread about that subject if they feel like arguing.

The minis are simple but cool! Skeletons are very detailed, and the modularity is fine. Comparing this product to SH minis, I find that the poses are less dynamic in DKH than they are in SH. It is also a bit dull that nearly all skeletons and revenants have a shield.

Comparing DKH to old GW products, such as Advanced HeroQuest, WarhammerQuest and the like, Mantic models are far better on all levels.

Generally speaking, Mantic minis are a very nice and cheap alternative to GW models.

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Jason Walsh
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Posted on Apr 1...you being serious? cool

Anyway, thanks for the overview, its helping me decide whether or not to pick this one up. Youve voiced a couple of concerns I had about the game, that being tactical depth and component quality. A personal concern is whether or not its worth the money for me to buy this when I currently have Earth Reborn which apparently has much more tactical depth than DKH. I was also wondering if this would be a good "substitute" for Space Hulk, which Ive been considering picking up off the second hand market for a while now.

That being said, after reading your review Im starting to think Ill stick with Earth Reborn for now and save my money.

Thanks again, it was very informative to me!

Jason
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ZZZMAN74
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So what about playing this with my kids. Ages 13 down to 5. Even the little guy would probably love to move some monsters and roll the dice. I'm actually INTRIGUED about the lighter gameplay. Seems like it would be a good fit for my family. Maybe not for hard-core game night with the guys, but the kids would probably eat this up.

Am I wrong? Thoughts?
 
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Andrew Bird
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mbourgeois wrote:
Quote:
(dog grenades?)
Dwarf Mastiff perhaps?
Dwarf Throwing Mastiff, to be exact.

Board Game: Dwarf King's Hold: Dead Rising


It's a pity that the rules from Kings of War for the throwing of said dogs were not migrated in some fashion to this game.
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Anders Pedersen
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Dbrundin wrote:
So what about playing this with my kids. Ages 13 down to 5. Even the little guy would probably love to move some monsters and roll the dice. I'm actually INTRIGUED about the lighter gameplay. Seems like it would be a good fit for my family. Maybe not for hard-core game night with the guys, but the kids would probably eat this up.

Am I wrong? Thoughts?
First off, I disagree with the OP.
Dwarf King's Hold is about the same complexity as Space Hulk.
The big difference is that this game does not feature ranged combat. On the other hand the combat system is a bit more complex, since that is the meat of the game.
Also both sides have about the same amount of options during the game, where the Genestealers in Space Hulk were solely concentrated on close-combat.
To me Dwarf King's Hold is the closest you can get to Space Hulk in a dungeon, without it just being a re-theming of the original. They have many things alike yet are two different games at the same time.

In my opinion the game should run smoothly with a 13 year old, but at 5 years, the combat system might be slightly difficult to fully understand. Positioning is very important, since combats with multiple figures need to be split properly!
But I do not have experience playing with kids of that age (ask me again in 3 years ) so I cannot say if it is possible to work around this issue. If playing in teams I could see it work.

There is also the Green Menace box to consider. It features Elves vs. Orcs and has ranged combat.
Also the expansion, for both games, Ancient Grudge, has rules for ranged units.
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