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Subject: Worth buying complex games? rss

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Devin Leung
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New Hyde Park
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Is it worth purchasing good, complicated games if the probability of finding enough people to play with you is close to zilch?

For instance, I'd like to buy TI3, but I know that there's no way I'm going to find the required 3 (much less optimum 5) for the game. Even if I were to find enough players, there's also the issue of making time available to finish the game.

I do have friends who are willing to play the simpler games. Such as Acquire, Risk, etc. Plus a smaller group (2-3 peeps) who are willing to play slightly higher fare like Yinsh, San Juan, PR, etc. But none that I know of who would devote the time and effort to something like TI3. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's faced this issue.
 
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Richard Irving
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That depends on your situation. If you don't have any friends willing to commit to long game, probably not. OTOH, if none of group ever purchases the game, then it will certainly never hit the table.

You know your group better than we do.
 
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Denise Lavely
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Carmel
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I have this problem all the time. It is so hard to find three people who are all able to get together at the same time to play the heavier games. I went through recently and counted the games in my collection that have been played less than three times & it was about 40 games, about 1/3 of my collection.

For me the solution is to keep hoping that I WILL be able to build a group that likes heavier games. In the meantime, I'm buying more 'family' games and 'medium weight' games to keep exposing my regular game group to different games in hopes that one or two of them will eventually want to play some heavier stuff. Placed a game order yesterday that included Coloretto, Fist of Dragonstones, Easy Come Easy Go, Geschenkt, Emerald, and Camelot Legends. Mostly games that were not on my radar a year ago, but I know people will play them, and I know I will enjoy them. (It helps to be openminded & cultivate a taste for all kinds of games )

But I'm not buying any heavy games for the time being unless they will play reasonably well with two. Once I get a game group where I can get Taj and PoF to the table on a regular basis, then I'll get more heavy games.
 
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Ben .
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Having 1 or 2 complex games available in general I would say is reasonable, just in the offchance you may one day get to play them.

However, TI3 is a whole lotta moolah to lay down for something you might never play. Are there any cheaper alternatives you have been considering?
 
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David Boeren
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I wouldn't buy too many games that you won't get to play, but having 1 or 2 just in case isn't a bad thing. Remember to that situations change, you may move to another town and have willing players available someday.
 
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Tom "Snicker Daddy" Pancoast
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Reasonable answer: Depends on your disposable income. Are you willing to lay down that kind of cash just to fondle the game?

My answer: Depends on your ability to rationalize. Example 1: I would like to play a deeper civilization type game, so I pick up Vinci because we might actually be able to play that, and it will hopefully give the group a taste for this kind of game. If they dig it, my Struggle of Empires purchase might not be in vain. Example 2: Same story with Starfarrers of Catan and TI3. Starfarrers went over well, so maybe they will be receptive to TI3, if I can ever get it cheap enough. My ability to rationalize is inversely related to the price.
 
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Devin Leung
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Snooze_uk wrote:
Having 1 or 2 complex games available in general I would say is reasonable, just in the offchance you may one day get to play them.

However, TI3 is a whole lotta moolah to lay down for something you might never play. Are there any cheaper alternatives you have been considering?


I am considering keeping some heavy games in stock on the off chance that there will be a huge snowstorm/flooding/riot causing my friends to be trapped in my home and will need to play whatever I want in exchange for food and bathroom privileges.

But there are some good points being made. I don't want to have an expensive game that I'll never play (but the cool factor is... well, cool). I do know several Risk fans, so maybe I should look at Blood Feud, or Risk LOTR trilogy, or even the new Clone Wars edition?

I guess I should just concentrate on games that people are more likely to play and try to work them up to the heavier stuff.
 
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Tom "Snicker Daddy" Pancoast
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devinl wrote:
I am considering keeping some heavy games in stock on the off chance that there will be a huge snowstorm/flooding/riot causing my friends to be trapped in my home and will need to play whatever I want in exchange for food and bathroom privileges.

Now *that* is some high quality rationlization, or at least high entertainment value!
 
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I know your pain.

Age of Steam sits nearly untouched on my shelf, with Tigris & Euphrates for company. And even those games are less dusty than Junta and Squad Leader.

Sob!
 
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Scott Parker
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Maybe this isn't the kind of advice you are looking for, but if you have several RISK fans in the group, and want to try more complicated games on down the road, you might try a little Wallenstein with them. It's similar enough to Risk that their eyes won't glaze over, but offers many, difficult and complex decisions while also providing a !@#%* of a good time.

My group didn't like to do much beyond Citadels and Settlers, and they have since gotten hooked on Wallenstein. This has in turn led to some excitement over Struggle of Empires, and now at least they aren't rolling their eyes at the idea of playing Twilight Imperium 3. It's just a matter of time.... (muhahaha!)

That said though, you probably can't radically alter your group's preferences too much. Some people will just never really be open to an idea, or will find it fun.

-Scott
 
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Preston Fuller
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Hey Tim,

I find that once people know how to play T&E that the game is not that "scary" nor time consuming (unless you have anaysis paralysis folks around you, in which case Fluxx can be painful). But, I do know the feeling of the great game that sits and sits. My list

Civilization, All my Axis & Allies, We The People, Settlers of Stone Age (not deep but man this game can go for a solid three hours) and the grand-dad of them all...Diplomacy.
 
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Devin Leung
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sparker wrote:
Maybe this isn't the kind of advice you are looking for, but if you have several RISK fans in the group, and want to try more complicated games on down the road, you might try a little Wallenstein with them. It's similar enough to Risk that their eyes won't glaze over, but offers many, difficult and complex decisions while also providing a !@#%* of a good time.

My group didn't like to do much beyond Citadels and Settlers, and they have since gotten hooked on Wallenstein. This has in turn led to some excitement over Struggle of Empires, and now at least they aren't rolling their eyes at the idea of playing Twilight Imperium 3. It's just a matter of time.... (muhahaha!)

That said though, you probably can't radically alter your group's preferences too much. Some people will just never really be open to an idea, or will find it fun.

-Scott


Wallenstein does look interesting, but it looks like it's OOP, and the ones selling on the Geek are pretty pricey too.
 
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Preston Fuller
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Thats why we play Wallenstein online.

http://www.spielbyweb.com

devil
 
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Peter Marchlewitz
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My advice would be to have one or two meaty games that can be played well with two players as well as more. Tikal is a great two player game. I find the two player variant of Puerto Rico good too.
 
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Ray
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I disagree with the advice that says keep one or two meety games on hand just in case. What will happen is you will buy them and then 6 months from now something else meaty will come out that will be the new meaty game you want to play (the problem is when you do get together for a meaty game it won't be what you bought years ago it wil be what has just come out) So unless your going to commit to dive into it now (or if all you want to do is look at it and not play it) don't buy it.
 
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Peter Marchlewitz
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Ray,
It seemed to me though that the poster was wondering whether he should get a meaty game based on the likelihood of having enough players for one. I suggested getting one or two that he would be able to play with only one other player if need be, which should see more play time if getting enough players for a multi player meaty game is more difficult.

 
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Hayden Scott
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There's something to be said for each of the approaches discussed above. But personally, if you have the money, I say BUY them ALL. Let me expand.

(a) Research them on BGG.
(b) View every on-line store for pricing comparisons.
(c) Do the math on buying in bulk from Germany.
(d) Spend your lunchtimes reading the rules.
(e) Spend your coffee breaks reading the rules questions on BGG.
(f) Spend your weekends setting the board up, shuffling the cards and dealing them out, and playing solitaire as you continue to work through the rules.
(g) Spend your evenings admiring your collection.

In short do everything that is in your power to do regarding the games. You may never get to play the game, or not get to play the game that often, but be as ready you can be, as you never know when you'll get your opportunity. You don't want to miss that one-off opportunity because others around you got impatient as you read the rules from scratch.

Sure, nothing compares to playing the games with others. But I reckon its better to immersre yourself in all the games coming out, regardless. That's not to say that its not frustrating having the games and not being able to play them. But for me, it would be worse to have to give up entirely on complex games, which for some may be the only other option open.
 
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Edward Ganaden
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Ditto on all the woefulness. I've got all these wonderful, brilliant games gathering dust because I seldom can muster up a group to play them.

One night not too long ago, 3 cousins and 2 uncles stopped by, and (you all can probably relate to this) I got all excited. I was going to initiate them into the world of Designer Games. They were are going to thank me.
But when I emerged with Ticket to Ride and Primordial Soup in the living room, much to my dismay, one cousin had convinced everyone to play Texas Hold 'Em Poker. My jaw dropped and I felt dejected and dumbfounded. I returned the games. In quiet protest, I locked myself away. They played into the wee hours of the morning. I could still hear them all giggling, enjoying their little card game. What Conspiracy? What the heck?
 
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Nomadic Gamer
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I feel your pain....cry
 
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Greg Zamira
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I was also thinking about buying "War of the Ring" even though I know it will never get played. See my comments on this geeklist; http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...
I enjoy learning games almost as much as playing them. I also want to be ready to play if I'm at a game convention. I want to be able to sit right down and play the game instead of taking the time to learn it for the first time.
 
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Jesse Acosta
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I dont know where you live, but you might consider using BGG to find some more players interested in "meatier games". Also try posting up a flyer at your local game store to see if you can find some interested folks.
 
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