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Dominion» Forums » Variants

Subject: KuulGryphun & friends custom cards rss

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John Jester
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My Dominion group and I made some cards (45 as of this posting) for use within our own games. Some have been play tested, and some are waiting for the next time we get together. I just discovered this forum and thought I'd share a few! Comments/criticism are welcome!

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CJ Agro
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My first criticism is of the mercenary. the -2 coins is a neat idea, i get the idea is that you have to pay for him to be played, however with his ability only really causing a -2 on your buy phase, and if during my buy phase i do nothing, or have no coins in my hand anyway, I got 2 actions and got to cycle out 2 cards from my deck for free. If instead i needed to discard 2 treasure cards, or discard enough treasure cards to equal at least 2 coins from my hand I could see that as paying for the mercenary and being a tougher choice. Also, the Discarding should happen before the additional actions are added and the 2 cards are drawn.

The -2 also wouldn't seem to really stop me from buying a copper on my turn anyway with a -2 and a cost of 0 I mean Technically i have -2 coins but thats an abstraction, what i really have is 0 coins which is what it costs to but a copper.

perhaps it would read like this:
Quote:
Reveal treasure cards with a value of up to 2 coins, place them immediately in your discard pile.
+2 Cards
+2 Action



I only have the base set and have not played many games, i just was introduced to this in the past month. So, I don't know if the -coin mechanic is something that has appeared on other cards in other expansions, but that would be my take on how to offer the balance of a card like that against something like the

Though if this is a playtested and successful card as is, well done.

P.S. Tiny other critique, on all the cards i checked while writing this post, +cards comes before +actions. I believe this is to clear up an confusion about whether to play actions before drawing cards. Unless you are meant to take your 2 additional mercenary actions before drawing the additional 2 cards.

:Edited for additional content:
 
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John Jester
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Regarding the -2 coins on Mercenary, when we play it we just allow for negative coins. So when you play Mercenary (during your action phase) you'll end up with -2 coins total. Then later, in your buy phase, if you play 5 coppers you'll have 3 coins total and can buy a card that costs 3. However, if you end up not playing any treasure in the buy phase after playing a Mercenary, you'll have -2 coins total and you won't even be able to afford a copper (the reasoning behind this is you must have total coins greater than the total cost of all cards you buy this turn, and 0 is greater than -2).

And no, I don't believe there are any real cards with minus coins.

Edit: Changed the effect order on Mercenary =P
 
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Thomas Brendel
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Wootai wrote:
P.S. Tiny other critique, on all the cards i checked while writing this post, +cards comes before +actions. I believe this is to clear up an confusion about whether to play actions before drawing cards. Unless you are meant to take your 2 additional mercenary actions before drawing the additional 2 cards.

While you're right that "+Card, +Action" is the standard presentation, it's technically irrelevant, because "+1 Action" doesn't mean "Play an Action immediately." It means "Add 1 to the number of Actions you are allowed to play."
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Evil Roy
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The problem with Beggar is that it helps your opponents more than it helps you so should never get played.

Mercenary I like and don't have a problem with "-2 coins". It may be too cheap at 4 cost. Not sure.

It's difficult to imagine that Spellbound often going to help you more than it hurts, especially considering its cost. The exception being when combined with Watchtower which makes it obscenely good.
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Drew Spencer
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Well I think all three of these look really good.
 
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Fred Snertz
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The wording on Beggar might be confusing. The "+1$ for each player" makes it sound like the other players are getting the +1$ but I assume that the person who played the Beggar is getting the extra money which fits the Beggar theme nicely. Maybe "+1$ for each card trashed by other players"?
 
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Alex Pseudonym
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shrimple wrote:
The wording on Beggar might be confusing. The "+1$ for each player" makes it sound like the other players are getting the +1$ but I assume that the person who played the Beggar is getting the extra money which fits the Beggar theme nicely. Maybe "+1$ for each card trashed by other players"?


"+1$ for each card trashed this way" is the convention, I believe.

I'm unsure about spellbound, it seems like it would get useless way too quickly since it empties the curses so fast.
 
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CJ Agro
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Squidd wrote:
Wootai wrote:
P.S. Tiny other critique, on all the cards i checked while writing this post, +cards comes before +actions. I believe this is to clear up an confusion about whether to play actions before drawing cards. Unless you are meant to take your 2 additional mercenary actions before drawing the additional 2 cards.

While you're right that "+Card, +Action" is the standard presentation, it's technically irrelevant, because "+1 Action" doesn't mean "Play an Action immediately." It means "Add 1 to the number of Actions you are allowed to play."


While you know this, I know this, people who have not played before may not know this, The cards are read from top to bottom, and while the cards generally just have pluses and coins its is still a sentence. An unfamiliar player may read the card "I can take one more action, then draw 2 cards" when reversed the order becomes "I draw 2 cards and can take 1 more action." Again, the point is to make the distinction of having the 2 new cards before having to choose your next action. Though this isnt a rules discussion so thats my piece.

Back to the topic:
I think the benefit for the beggar should instead be +1 Buy rather than +1 Action. Something about the beggar makes me think once he got that money, he'd go and try to spend it,

Infact i find it interesting that all your cards here include additional actions and not one gives an additional buy. is there any particular reason?
 
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John Jester
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Evil Roy wrote:
The problem with Beggar is that it helps your opponents more than it helps you so should never get played.

I wonder what you think about this version if you think the one in the OP is too weak (also changed the old wording a bit to match above suggestions):



Incidentally, neither version of Beggar that I've shown here is one thats been play tested, and Beggar is the card that I've done the most iteration on to try and find a fair way to get this feel. Some older versions were (both cost 2):

Clearly OP after first play test:
Attack
+1 Action
Each other player discards a card.

Less OP, but still OP when chained:
Attack
+1 Action
+$1
Each other player may discard a card. +$1 for each player who did not.
 
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John Jester
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Wootai wrote:
Infact i find it interesting that all your cards here include additional actions and not one gives an additional buy. is there any particular reason?

No particular reason. It's just 3 cards of the 45 we've made so far. If you want to see one that gives buys:



"Permanent" is a new action type we made up, similar to durations except that permanents are never discarded automatically during the clean-up phase.
 
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Alex Pseudonym
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KuulGryphun wrote:
Wootai wrote:
Infact i find it interesting that all your cards here include additional actions and not one gives an additional buy. is there any particular reason?

No particular reason. It's just 3 cards of the 45 we've made so far. If you want to see one that gives buys:

IMG

"Permanent" is a new action type we made up, similar to durations except that permanents are never discarded automatically during the clean-up phase.


There actually isn't any reason not to use duration cards for this, its just that none of the current duration cards say anything other than "at the start of your next turn". If you word a duration card like you worded this one, you can still call it a duration and not have to make up a new subtype.
 
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John Jester
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Axxle wrote:
There actually isn't any reason not to use duration cards for this, its just that none of the current duration cards say anything other than "at the start of your next turn". If you word a duration card like you worded this one, you can still call it a duration and not have to make up a new subtype.

This is true I suppose, but it makes more sense to give it the permanent type in light of the first permanent card we made, which does require a new type:



This way, "duration" remains a type that means "stays in play until the end of your next turn", while "permanent" becomes a type that means "stays in play".
 
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CJ Agro
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I really like the mechanic on the Astrolabe. I like that its a card that you basically have in your hand, but doesn't add to your hand total. I would like to see a version of this card for each +1 buy and +1$. For me, What i think would over power this card is that it doesn't cost an action to play. Where if i had 4 out, i could discard all four, and have 5 actions left, where as if it cost an action to discard i would have 4 and end with still 1 action.
 
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Evil Roy
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KuulGryphun wrote:
I wonder what you think about this version if you think the one in the OP is too weak (also changed the old wording a bit to match above suggestions):




The problem with the card isn't that it's weak if nobody trashes a cards, it's that allowing your opponents to trash a card really helps them a lot. It's far too helpful to your opponents to give them the chance to trash all their weak cards.
 
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Evil Roy
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Astrolabe gives the potential to create in infinite turn. If all your other cards are in your hand or in play then you can discard Astrolabe, draw it and play it again repeatedly.
 
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John Jester
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Evil Roy wrote:
The problem with the card isn't that it's weak if nobody trashes a cards, it's that allowing your opponents to trash a card really helps them a lot. It's far too helpful to your opponents to give them the chance to trash all their weak cards.

I'm curious what you think about Bishop. I generally think Bishop is a pretty good card, even though it lets your opponents trash.

Evil Roy wrote:
Astrolabe gives the potential to create in infinite turn. If all your other cards are in your hand or in play then you can discard Astrolabe, draw it and play it again repeatedly.

I realized this could happen, but thought it didn't matter, since playing and replaying a bunch of Astrolabes doesn't give you any benefit (I guess in a very contrived scenario you could get the Conspirator bonus with a single Astrolabe). Technically speaking, every reaction in the game creates an infinite turn, since you're allowed to reveal it repeatedly as many times as you want, but you won't gain anything for it.
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Evil Roy
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KuulGryphun wrote:
I'm curious what you think about Bishop. I generally think Bishop is a pretty good card, even though it lets your opponents trash.


Though Bishop lets you trash a card as well your opponents and gives you other benefits as well.


KuulGryphun wrote:
Evil Roy wrote:
Astrolabe gives the potential to create in infinite turn. If all your other cards are in your hand or in play then you can discard Astrolabe, draw it and play it again repeatedly.

I realized this could happen, but thought it didn't matter, since playing and replaying a bunch of Astrolabes doesn't give you any benefit (I guess in a very contrived scenario you could get the Conspirator bonus with a single Astrolabe). Technically speaking, every reaction in the game creates an infinite turn, since you're allowed to reveal it repeatedly as many times as you want, but you won't gain anything for it.


Agreed, it's pointless with the card as is. Back in the days when I played Star Wars CCG I read about someone who came up with a infinite turn combo and used it in a tournament so force games to be drawn when the time ran out.
 
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Drew Spencer
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Evil Roy wrote:
The problem with the card isn't that it's weak if nobody trashes a cards, it's that allowing your opponents to trash a card really helps them a lot. It's far too helpful to your opponents to give them the chance to trash all their weak cards.


This would be something to buy early. If it gets you an early Gold or important 5-cost card a shuffle early, I'd say it's well worth letting your opponents trash one Estate or Copper each.
 
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Andrew Wilkins
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Here are my thoughts:

Beggar - My favorite of your cards. It's 2-coster that provides a benefit for you and your opponents. I like the original version the best. I don't think you should get a card if no one trashes because that puts it out of the realm of 2-cost cards IMO.

Mercenary - Not sure how I feel about cards that give negative actions, coins, etc. I tend to try and stray from those mechanics because I don't think they mesh well with the original games. How about:

"+2 actions

If you set aside a Treasure card from your hand, +2 cards. Place all set aside cards into your discard pile during your clean-up phase."

This way, you are still losing treasure for your current turn, but without the negative mechanic.

Spellbound - Not sure I would ever use a card that gives me Curses so fast for such little benefit. If you are looking for a card to interact with Curses, how about this:

"+1 card
+1 action

If you choose to gain a curse, +2 coin, +1 buy. You may not choose this option if there are no curses to gain from the supply."

This now makes Spellbound a very cheap Grand Market, but it comes at a price.

Permanant actions - A permanent benefit is very powerful, no matter how simple it may seem at first. I've seen the idea of "Permanent" actions thrown around before, but I think you need to have the following conditions met for them to be fair cards:

1) High cost
2) Give up something in order to put it in play
3) There is no way to remove the card from play

Floating City is close but I think Astrolabe doesn't make much sense as a "permanent" card since you an discard it at any time.

By the way, great card art! Where is it from?
 
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John Jester
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Thanks for the comments!

I agree that beggar should stay without the extra card if nobody discards.

Most of the art is from http://digital-art-gallery.com

I'm surprised everyone thinks Spellbound is so bad. In playtesting it lead to some hideously good turns using a bunch of terminal actions in a row (usually Council Room, Smithy, or the like). I think its best used late in the game to get a couple huge turns, before the curses have a chance to gum up your draws. Maybe early game too if there are good trashers on the board, but depleting the curse pile to draw some extra coppers in the early game is definitely not as good as waiting.
 
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Evil Roy
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KuulGryphun wrote:
I'm surprised everyone thinks Spellbound is so bad. In playtesting it lead to some hideously good turns using a bunch of terminal actions in a row (usually Council Room, Smithy, or the like).


I would have thought that if your deck has too many terminal actions you're doing something wrong. Having said that, there are often times when you really need a +2 action card but in those cases I think I'd prefer Astrolabe (which has the same effect since it doesn't require an action to discard it).
 
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