I took a look to replacemente counters inside Cof: POH and it looks like some tactics now are completely suicidal:
In awakening of the bear a T26 could CC against a Antitank gun 37 mm with a FP of 4+4=8 while the same ANtitank gun had a FP of 5-2=3. Now with new counters and rules the same Antitank gun (now called PAK36) has a FP of 5+4=9, 3 times more than before! So getting cc with these guns now its only a matter of infanfry, tanks get chewed. I am no historian or grognard but this looks a tough change to the game mechanics, was that made on purpose? Antitank guns really chewed tanks in CC? and Uwe didnt know that before?
Do you feel okay with this change? are you aware of other changes?
I own Atb, but must admit I have not had the chance to play it yet.
Bought tuns of games at one time and decided to keep the best game till last to play. In hindsight not a good plan.
Anyway, apart from time and players available one thing that sort of put me off playing was the fact that I was told to use different rules before I even got the game out of the box.
Go with the Kurks rules I was told, they're much better.
So now I have a useless rulebook and have to download and print a new one from the site. Not the best start for a new game.
Next there is -among an explosion of CoH games- the polish game, as I like to call it, and while deciding on buying this.
Yes I know I really should play the basegame first, but I can get it a bit cheaper now, so temptation is big.
Anyway, while reading all about this, I suddenly see that I now apparenlty can also scrap the counters that came with AtB.
For some reason those counters were faulty? and we get the new ones in the polish game?
It does not make me happy I must admit.
Basically it means that I've bought AtB and all that is left of that game are the boards. The rest of the stuff in the box can go into the fireplace?
So now I either may go and buy the polish expansion, or simply stick with what I've got.
Stubornly ignore new rules and new counters and play things as they were intenden when that box was sold.
Really I like Uwe and am an absolute fan of the great quality of his games, can't wait to get my hands on his new game. Strike of the Eagle.
But all this fiddling about with rules and counters, it makes one wonder if they've not brought the game on the market to quick.
It also makes you wonder if this is just a pause in design i.e. will they reconsider and chance things again in future, or is this it.
most ATGs out to be outstanding in CC against vehicles, Uwe may have not payed attention to this but for sure he did not want these pieces of aty to be able to fight against infantry in CC too efficiently.
CoH was thought of as easy to learn, needing-no-memorizing nor CRT's game. Brilliant idea with white boxes (that came up with Kursk) addressed problem described above.
All this discussion has also been addressed by fans earlier, as AtB has been an outstanding game on its own, and we may as we choose: either complain about all new improvements (both those we have to pay for and those that are free), or get excited and happy with them, or just stick to what we've got. Free market, free will.
I chose the second option (out of three described above) and I am happy with my choice.
Moises Del Mar
Agreed. ATGs performed very well at 50m. Keep in mind, even if occupying the same hex, they could still be potentially 50m from each other. I like to imagine different situations happening even within the same hex depending on the units occupying it.
I also understand the concerns voiced above, but as was said, AtB is fine on its own. All good games tend to evolve and I believe it's a testament to its fan base and popularity. The original rules are fine enough, and the game is still definitely worth it even if played in its original mode.
You keep more than just the boards from AtB for the Polish expansion. You keep the other counters, the cards, the track sheets etc, all of which are necessary to play the Polish expansion. The new unit counters replace the old ones, but are an upgrade even though the original ones are completely sufficient. Art and ease of reading are vastly improved.
Also, the change in rules is very clear and concise and can literally be learned in less than 30 seconds if you already know the original rules. It's really a minor concept change in the turns that has a large effect of creating more realism throughout the game.
As was stated, the vast majority of people owning these games has loved the rule changes and has enjoyed the effort put into the evolution and perftion of the game.
- Last edited Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:44 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
- Posted Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:43 pm
Where the heck did this interest in WW1 come from?
Ashwin in front of Tiger 131
This post is not to criticise the OP because I was also a bit put out by the change of rules between AtB and SoS. On reflection though I think Uwe made a difficult but correct call. He then had a choice about what to do next - but each choice comes with a problem.
1. Do nothing
2. Issue updated counters for free as a separate item
3. Include updated counters in the next expansion
From a cost vs customer care angle, I think he made the right choice. I'm a long way from being a fan boy - I only own and play the games with my eldest son because he likes the system (after early enthusiasm I've become fairly indifferent to it). That said I find Uwe to be pretty exemplary in terms of taking onboard criticism, listening to his customers and treating them with respect.
A couple of other wargame companies could learn from him.
I am not critic at all... I am just asking what are the differences... for once this looked a huge difference ( =change) to me!
Other differences? I just found out smg got shorter range, since I do not own the game but I play it with my mate regularly id like to know the other "subtle" differences between old and new counters
Yes, I definitely noticed the difference in the first firefight of AtB. With the Soviet SMG range being reduced from 6 to 3 with the new counters, it definitely reduced the effectiveness of the unit, especially if you play with the solo rules. If I play this firefight solo, I switch starting places with the rifle unit.
To me, the change in unit stats/abilities just means that you have to develop new tactics.
- Last edited Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:00 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
- Posted Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:48 pm