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Subject: 7 Wonders: Atlantis rss

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Kwang Il Kim
South Korea
Seoul
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Hi.
I've been seeking another wonder which goes with the original ancient wonders in the base game.
Then I focused on Atlantis.

I would be pleased if you would discuss its balance with me.


Atlantis - 'A'
It is designed to be used with or without the Leaders expansion.

Initial resource: None. But + 1 Coin from the bank each turn when your any raw material (brown color) is sold.

1st Stage (2 Clay): 3 VPs.
2nd Stage (3 Ore) : +1 Shield & 3 VPS
3rd Stage (4 Stone): + 1 Scientific symbol (your choice)



Atlanis - 'B'
It requires the Leaders expansion.

Initial resource: None. But + 1 Coin from the bank each time any manufactured goods (gray color) is sold.

1st Stage (2 Clay): 3 VPs.
2nd Stage (3 Ore): Immediately draw 4 Leaders from the box and recruit one of them free.
3rd Stage (7 Coins): + 1 Scientific symbol (your choice)


Thanks for reading.
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Wolfram Troeder
Germany
Bruchkoebel
Hessen
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Just to make sure:
But + 1 Coin from the bank? on your turn selling one or more raw materials (brown color)
So somebody buys my stuff and I get a kickback from the bank?
 
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Kwang Il Kim
South Korea
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Wolfram wrote:
Just to make sure:
But + 1 Coin from the bank? on your turn selling one or more raw materials (brown color)
So somebody buys my stuff and I get a kickback from the bank?
Ah, I mistyped. I corrected them.
You receive the coins for your raw materials (brown color) sold from buyers as usual.
And you get one bonus coin from the bank at the end of the turn.
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Michele Nesci
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A few quick comments:
Side B production seems weaker than side A. Brown resources are traded much more often, especially in the early game, when your wonder production is most important. Maybe giving 2 coins instead of 1?
Also, I'd restrict any trade to any trade made by your neighbours. It is more in keeping with the general game philosophy of "only your neighbours matter" and it makes it behave the same way no matter how many players there are.

I am not a big fan of science on the wonder because it tends to restrict strategies.
finally, side A needs a bit too many different resources. How about changing stage 4 cost to 4 bricks?
Keep in mind that no wonder stage cost 4 of a thing except for Giza, who has one of the needed resources as their production anyway. In a 3-player game, 4 stone is all the stone in all the decks (there is only one stone and one stone/something else in age I and one double stone in age II). It's a bit steep.
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Dave F.
Netherlands
Schelluinen
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I don't really like its side A.

I wonder (no pun intended) if many people will actually build the 3rd stage, because the Green strategy is not much adhered to. Besides this, you will get trumped by Babylon which has the symbols as a 2nd build stage leading up to something better (7VP). I think the 3rd stage may be better if you split the VPs 3-2-3 making them 8 in total, a little less than the others. The 2nd stage is also less interesting than Rhodes which has 2 Military leading up to 7 VP.

All things considered, it seems side A has a little bit of everything without a real advantage like the other boards. It needs something special. Atlantis was known for its high culture, so going with that I think this setup would be nice:

Stage 1: 3 VP
Stage 2: 3 VP
Stage 3: 2 scientific symbols of the same type (= 4 points)

This way, the player can choose (early or in Age III) to expand the cultural level for extra points or just keep the automatic 4 points (provided by 2 of the same symbols) for 10 total VP. One extra scientific symbol of any type (the same as chosen in the end) automatically gives the player 5 extra points for 15 VP.

This is in line with wonders like Ephesus which give 10 clear VP + 9 coins (3 VP) for a 'direct' total of 14 VP and Giza, which gives 15 VP directly.

For an A side, I would just provide a raw material or a manufactured good. As it is, all of those goods are already present at all of the other A-side wonders. This leaves coin, but I think 1 coin from the bank every turn is too much. I'd opt for 1 coin every 2 turns or 5 coins at the end of ages I and II, whichever works best in practice.

Keeping it the same as the other A sides, I would make stage I cost 2 coins and stage 3 cost 5 coins or something like that. Needs tweaking.

I have not played enough of the B sides to comment on them.
 
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