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Gnostica» Forums » Variants

Subject: Judgment too powerful? Weaken it? rss

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Russ Williams
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Every time we play lately, whoever has the good fortune of drawing Judgment ends up winning, by using Judgment often to get Judgment and 2 other powerful cards from the discard. Basically, every other card gives you its effect once, but Judgment is the gift that keeps on giving...

The rules explicitly say you can use Judgment to take Judgment itself back from the discard like this, but we are really starting to think it might be better if you couldn't take Judgment back in this way.

So 2 questions:

1. Do others find the luck of who draws Judgment to be too game-deciding?

2. Has anyone experimented with weakening Judgment so that it can't be used to take Judgment itself back out of the discard when you play it?

(Note: I'm talking 2-player Gnostica. I could imagine that in multi-player, there would be the usual leader-bashing to solve the problem of Judgment being so powerful...)
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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I've never played Gnostica with only two players (usually 4-5), but in our last game, people got fed up with it, so mid-game we started saying you can't use it to pick itself up. Even with that limitation, though, it's still a great card I would always be happy to draw.

(Now, whether it really is too powerful, or whether everyone was just upset because it's always me who gets it, I don't know.)
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Russ Williams
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kuhrusty wrote:
I've never played Gnostica with only two players (usually 4-5)

Oh, funny - I've never played it with more than 2 players (but keep hoping to)...

Do you play to 9 points? I wondered if there is a problem of the game dragging on forever due to multiple people being able to bash the leader, so people being more hesitant to declare victory...?

Quote:
, but in our last game, people got fed up with it, so mid-game we started saying you can't use it to pick itself up. Even with that limitation, though, it's still a great card I would always be happy to draw.

Cool, glad it wasn't just our imagination, and that others think it might be worth modifying.
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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russ wrote:
Do you play to 9 points? I wondered if there is a problem of the game dragging on forever due to multiple people being able to bash the leader, so people being more hesitant to declare victory...?

Yeah, I'm not sure we've ever made it to 9 points in a 4-5 player game. Usually we play to 7, but that's sometimes led to surprising/anticlimactic endings, where one guy jumps from 4 to 7 before anyone realizes he's a threat. (But even playing to 7 we've had some games which were contests of endurance, where at midnight someone would declare victory so that he could get eliminated & go home.)

In this game, green is at 7 and orange is at 8, but even if we were playing to 7 (I don't remember), each would be crazy to declare victory at this point.


Caption: "Obviously this game has been going on for too long! (Hey, we were destroying territories too; Judgement was built as a land, and destroyed, twice.)"

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Russ Williams
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Wow, extreme drawishness... my dark suspicions confirmed! Perhaps it's a good thing I've only played it 2-player.

We always finish, usually in roughly an hour (but it can vary... one game I recall was like 5 minutes or something...), normally with a good satisfying dramatic decisive victory/termination.

Still, I'm curious to try it multi-player sometime.
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Russ Williams
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cazantyl wrote:
So now that it's been a few months, have either of you found a solution to Judgement?

We played some games with the modified Judgement (that you cannot take Judgement itself immediately back out of the discard pile) and that seemed to help. It's still powerful but certainly not so game-winning since you only get to use it once that way! It also encourages you to grow a land into Judgement to be able to reuse it repeatedly, and then you can fight back and forth over control of that land, which seems to make gameplay more interesting.
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