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Subject: About piecepack cards & hexpack rss

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Melody
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I recently did a redesign of the basic set & 3 expansion. I'm pretty sure I'll add the hexpack set but I was wondering about the cards. I thought I'd do the larger set but I was thinking to add a bit of symbols to them like letters in the right corner & maybe some arrows. This might make them easier to design games for. Is there anything that would be useful or does anyone still design new games for the system. Also I was thinking to make the hexpack useable as there doesn't seem to be any games for it that I'd make the backs of the set different terrain maybe.
Thanks,
 
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Daniel Ajoy
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To tell the truth, I made myself a hexpack, just because I wanted to play ZÈRTZ
with some coins.

so I printed the fronts and backs but didn't glue them together because I needed 37 hexagons to play the game.

The same problem (lack of enough tiles) seems to be present when trying to port games like Hey, That's My Fish! or Survive: Escape from Atlantis!
.

Here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/973518/piecepack?commenti...

I mentioned the issue of whether the back of tiles should be checkered or not. Maybe the back of cards should be checkered but the backs of tiles not... (I just learned that the designer of the Piecepack didn't like the idea of checkered backs: http://www.ludism.org/ppwiki/DesignFAQ)

In general, I think a way to improve the Piecepack system is to make it more inter-operable with other basic systems, like an ordinary deck of cards, the Icehouse (like you are trying to do with the piecepack card pips), or a set of Dominoes.

So maybe, if you at the point of choosing a good Ace symbol you could consider making it look like the Ace of regular deck of cards... Although, I also consider a somewhat circular design good (like the Blue Panther "whirl" symbol) because it resembles ONE dot. Maybe something like the Anarchy symbol would be the best of both worlds

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Melody
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** Crosspost here***
I did read the the designer notes on the wiki page before designing this graphic package but thought his reasoning somewhat silly as orienting the tiles as you lay them down takes only a smidge longer. I understand though that some people would like just a plain grid. I won't change the main file as I like it the original way but will offer a alternative plain gridded back in the files section.

Here's an image of the alternative back.

 


I have decided that after I finish the cards I will make the hexpack & I will make one for all sets so there should a variety & ample amount of hexes.

As for the ace/null question I'll have to think of it. The reason I did all numbers in the first place was to have an orientation corner, with the null instead of the zero I would have had to add something to mark the corner. If I did a ace symbol for the cards it would not be a A as I'm putting letters on the cards. I did whip up an circle with a cross but if I used it that would mean changing the tiles to reflect the cards & I'm not sure I want to do that. I think the numbers 0 to 5 are adequate really.

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Melody
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Ok I've worked on the cards & changed the 0 & 1 to null & ace. I used the suit motive as the ace symbol. At the moment I have each card suit going from null to 6 with each set having 2 jokers to bring the card count to 26 to match the alphabet. I'm wondering if I should make suits go up to king? That would a huge deck if you printed out them all. Coming up with arrow combos for all those would be a pain really.
 
 
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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
I've been thinking & your right about the null & ace symbol. They would be be better than using the numbers 0 & 1. I would use the main motive as an ace symbol & the circle cross as a null.
 

I'm not sure what you mean by the "main motive" I hope it doesn't mean the suit: moon, sun, etc. because coins shouldn't convey suit information when they are showing number side.
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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
Ok I've worked on the cards & changed the 0 & 1 to null & ace. I used the suit motive as the ace symbol. At the moment I have each card suit going from null to 6 with each set having 2 jokers to bring the card count to 26 to match the alphabet. I'm wondering if I should make suits go up to king? That would a huge deck if you printed out them all. Coming up with arrow combos for all those would be a pain really.
 

There are exactly 56 two-arrow permutations:

1 [green:N red:NW]
2 [green:N red:W]
3 [green:N red:SW]
4 [green:N red:S]
5 [green:N red:SE]
6 [green:N red:E]
7 [green:N red:NE]
8 [green:NW red:N]
9 [green:NW red:W]
10 [green:NW red:SW]
11 [green:NW red:S]
12 [green:NW red:SE]
13 [green:NW red:E]
14 [green:NW red:NE]
15 [green:W red:N]
16 [green:W red:NW]
17 [green:W red:SW]
18 [green:W red:S]
19 [green:W red:SE]
20 [green:W red:E]
21 [green:W red:NE]
22 [green:SW red:N]
23 [green:SW red:NW]
24 [green:SW red:W]
25 [green:SW red:S]
26 [green:SW red:SE]
27 [green:SW red:E]
28 [green:SW red:NE]
29 [green:S red:N]
30 [green:S red:NW]
31 [green:S red:W]
32 [green:S red:SW]
33 [green:S red:SE]
34 [green:S red:E]
35 [green:S red:NE]
36 [green:SE red:N]
37 [green:SE red:NW]
38 [green:SE red:W]
39 [green:SE red:SW]
40 [green:SE red:S]
41 [green:SE red:E]
42 [green:SE red:NE]
43 [green:E red:N]
44 [green:E red:NW]
45 [green:E red:W]
46 [green:E red:SW]
47 [green:E red:S]
48 [green:E red:SE]
49 [green:E red:NE]
50 [green:NE red:N]
51 [green:NE red:NW]
52 [green:NE red:W]
53 [green:NE red:SW]
54 [green:NE red:S]
55 [green:NE red:SE]
56 [green:NE red:E]
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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
So I guess I'll have to rethink the ace symbol as your right about the coins. I think I may be be a tad tired. It's actually 3 arrows although still not sure whether to include them.

Got it, 3 arrows. Well with three arrow there are many combinations (336) So I was looking for a criteria to select a few.

These are the ones in which the directions of the arrows cancel each other out.

Eg. the first one: if you move NE and then S and then W, you end up where you started.

All of these are like that.


1 [green:NE red:S yellow:W]
2 [green:NE red:W yellow:S]
3 [green:E red:S yellow:NW]
4 [green:E red:SW yellow:N]
5 [green:E red:NW yellow:S]
6 [green:E red:N yellow:SW]
7 [green:SE red:W yellow:N]
8 [green:SE red:N yellow:W]
9 [green:S red:NE yellow:W]
10 [green:S red:E yellow:NW]
11 [green:S red:W yellow:NE]
12 [green:S red:NW yellow:E]
13 [green:SW red:E yellow:N]
14 [green:SW red:N yellow:E]
15 [green:W red:NE yellow:S]
16 [green:W red:SE yellow:N]
17 [green:W red:S yellow:NE]
18 [green:W red:N yellow:SE]
19 [green:NW red:E yellow:S]
20 [green:NW red:S yellow:E]
21 [green:N red:E yellow:SW]
22 [green:N red:SE yellow:W]
23 [green:N red:SW yellow:E]
24 [green:N red:W yellow:SE]
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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
Is there anything that would be useful or does anyone still design new games for the system. Also I was thinking to make the hexpack useable as there doesn't seem to be any games for it that I'd make the backs of the set different terrain maybe.
Thanks,

I think making the piecepack design more useful is an great endeavor.

However, I don't think retheming the Hexpack spec is worth the effort, because there are very few games (1?) specifically designed for the Hexpack.

I strongly suggest you join

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/piecepack

and ask there what kind of extensions for the original piecepack would be useful.

There is a message from that group:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/piecepack/message/3347

that says that by 2008 the exact definition of the Hexpack is still in flux.

I personally think that hexagonal tiles or hexagonal coins (37 or more) would be a great expansion for the piecepack.

The expansion I actually use is

http://www.ludism.org/ppwiki/PlayingCardsExpansion

Because:

* To adapt games, I sometimes need more than one piecepack

* I can use the PlayingCardsExpansion piecepack as the main piecepack and use it to interact with a regular deck of cards.

* It also has potential for games that use the SixPack concept: http://www.ludism.org/ppwiki/SixPack

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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
So I guess I'll have to rethink the ace symbol as your right about the coins.

Couple suggestions:

http://www.openclipart.org/detail/110239

http://www.openclipart.org/detail/106315
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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
If I did a ace symbol for the cards it would not be a A as I'm putting letters on the cards.

It wouldn't actually be an A. It could be and A-like symbol:

http://www.openclipart.org/detail/6583

... unless you feel that such a symbol has too much baggage.

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Daniel Ajoy
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DanielAjoy wrote:
Got it, 3 arrows. Well with three arrow there are many combinations (336) So I was looking for a criteria to select a few.

These are the ones in which the directions of the arrows cancel each other out.

...24 combinations...

Pointing out something obvious here: 24 = 4x6 of the regular piecepack. And that would fit nicely with your description of your deck of 26 cards with letters. Because it could be the 24 arrow combinations + 2 "wild"

... unless the 24 arrow combinations I selected don't work for your intended use of arrows... still I'm not clear about how you envision using the arrows.
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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
I have decided that after I finish the cards I will make the hexpack & I will make one for all sets so there should a variety & ample amount of hexes.

Cool. I think this will be interesting to you:

http://www.ludism.org/ppwiki/SixPack
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Russ Williams
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DanielAjoy wrote:
It wouldn't actually be an A. It could be and A-like symbol:

http://www.openclipart.org/detail/6583

... unless you feel that such a symbol has too much baggage.
Is it just dyslexia or is it some intentional inside joke that the symbol on that page is labeled "Aranchy" instead of "Anarchy"?
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Melody
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Ok, I've worked on the cards & I've finished the art & layout. Just need to make the pdf's. Here's an image of the standard set with the 2 jokers. I changed the color of the numbers & pips to make them more visible. I also added a thick white stroke around the arrows to add to the visibility as well. After I've upped the files I want work on the tiles. Mainly I want to have the numbers & symbols to mesh with the cards. I think I'll add arrows matching the cards, I'm not adding the pips as I think it's too much. I would like to add the letters as well but there are not enough tiles in a set. I'd have to add joker tiles to bring up the number or number 6 tiles. Oh well I'll see.
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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
I'd have to add joker tiles to bring up the number or number 6 tiles. Oh well I'll see.

There is another reason to add number 6 tiles: Dominoes have nulls, 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, and 6s...

So, a domino piece could establish a link between two tiles if they go up to 6. Otherwise all the 6 domino pieces have to be removed.

I've been using dominoes as "destination cards" in an adaptation of Ticket to Ride.


Another reason to have at least a jocker tile is to complete the 25 tiles, to make a 5x5 board....
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Melody
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I've uploaded the files to Artscow. Here's the links
Deck 1
Deck 2

This is a sample image of some of the suits with the last image being the back.
 
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Melody
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Ok, I worked on the tiles. I made 7 tiles null to 6, added the letters & arrows. Two of the number 6 tiles will have the letters y & z on them, the other two will have the joker symbol. There was no room for the generic green money/victory tokens so I added another die. One die is number 1 to 6, one die is null to 5, & the last is a set die with a blank & a joker face.
 
 
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Melody
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I've worked up the new tile layout but was wondering about the arrows. On left arrows just bezeled, right arrows like the cards. I kinda like the left arrows as they're more visible on the tiles. The right ones although they match the cards I think are harder to see the color. Which one?
 
 
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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
I kinda like the left arrows as they're more visible on the tiles. The right ones although they match the cards I think are harder to see the color. Which one?
 

vote for left.
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I think your designs give away too much info about the coins by having designs with color on both sides. There are piecepack games that depend on not being able to tell the suit of a coin from the number side.
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Daniel Ajoy
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mark_biggar wrote:
I think your designs give away too much info about the coins by having designs with color on both sides. There are piecepack games that depend on not being able to tell the suit of a coin from the number side.

Melody fixed that:
 
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The original design had the set color but now all coins have the generic green color.
 
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I've finished the tiles. Because they are now such a radical difference from the original piecepack I've decided to up them seperatly. I'll start with the standard set & once that's approved will up the rest. I decided that with the 7 tiles, letters & arrows that I should not delete the old files as I'm sure some people will prefer the older ones to the new ones. I'm going to take a break from designing for a few days to a week then will start on the hexpack. Here's the final layout for version 2.
 
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I'm totally finished with my re-design. I just need to upload all the files. I've decided to divide up the files onto 4 pages, the regular piecepack one, a hex page, a piecepack version 2 page, & a card page. I've uploaded one of the new 6 to king card file to create the page then will transfer over the old cards to the new page. I still need to extract all the jpegs for the new cards & create the Artscow decks. Unfortunately the new cards total 128 which makes for 2 decks plus a small 20 card deck.

With the hexes I decided on a simple gradient so that they wouldn't get 'lost' if mixed with the piecepack set. I also added pips like I did with the cards. I didn't add letters as I saw no use for them in a hex design. I thought terrain symbols to be quite useful as the most obvious use for these are maps. Here's an image of the hexes.
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Daniel Ajoy
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sunshiny wrote:
I thought terrain symbols to be quite useful as the most obvious use for these are maps.

They'll probably be useful for playing Piecepack Letterbox.
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