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Subject: Selurin Theurge rss

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Günter Immeyer
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Two little detail questions regarding the "Selurin Theurge" hero:

Selurin Theurge wrote:
DUNGEON: Each player discards one Hero or shows that they have none. You may borrow one of these discarded Heroes for the battle, returning it at the end.

1) Has it been officially confirmed that the above text was meant to say "Each other player discards one Hero..."? => Several other rules threads in these forums seem to agree on/indicate that, but you never know...

2) If the "Selurin Theurge" player does borrow a hero from another player and that hero survives the battle, does "...returning it at the end." mean that the card goes back into the original owner's discard pile? Or does it go into his/her hand?
 
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Marius Roth
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Regarding 2):
As the hero has already been discarded, I would say that it also goes back into the discard pile from where it came.
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Miraculix wrote:
Two little detail questions regarding the "Selurin Theurge" hero:

Selurin Theurge wrote:
DUNGEON: Each player discards one Hero or shows that they have none. You may borrow one of these discarded Heroes for the battle, returning it at the end.

1) Has it been officially confirmed that the above text was meant to say "Each other player discards one Hero..."? => Several other rules threads in these forums seem to agree on/indicate that, but you never know...

2) If the "Selurin Theurge" player does borrow a hero from another player and that hero survives the battle, does "...returning it at the end." mean that the card goes back into the original owner's discard pile? Or does it go into his/her hand?


1) It may seem odd, but I go with what the card says. Besides, people are already complaining how overpowed Selurin is. This seems on the level.

2) From the way I read it, I'm thinking it's just that. "returning it" is wence it came from, which were borrowed from your opponents' decks.
 
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Günter Immeyer
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Thanks for the replies. Looks like we're all at one with no. 2 in that any borrowed hero needs to get placed back on its owner's discard pile after the battle.

But no. 1 is still a bit of a mystery to me. Normally, I would also always tend to read (and play) a card literally without adding any interpretations, but in this case I'm not quite sure if the designers really meant to say "each player"... Yeah, true: the Selurin are very powerful, but how can they be overpowered? Every player is free to buy them, so there shouldn't really be any balancing issues regardless of whether you have to discard one of your heroes or not when using that Theurge dungeon effect.

An argument for the effect being "mistexted" is that you could normally expect any dungeon effect of a level 3 hero to be really good/advantageous for the owning player. But this wouldn't be the case if "each player" (including you!) were forced to discard a hero, especially when you think of situtations in which the Theurge would be your only hero in the party: you'd probably always choose to not use the dungeon effect then, because you'd have to discard the Theurge itself (and then maybe "borrow" your own discarded card, in case you really wanted/needed to use the Theurge's doubling ability?!).

Mhmmm...
 
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Martin Smith
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Miraculix wrote:
Two little detail questions regarding the "Selurin Theurge" hero:

Selurin Theurge wrote:
DUNGEON: Each player discards one Hero or shows that they have none. You may borrow one of these discarded Heroes for the battle, returning it at the end.

1) Has it been officially confirmed that the above text was meant to say "Each other player discards one Hero..."? => Several other rules threads in these forums seem to agree on/indicate that, but you never know...

2) If the "Selurin Theurge" player does borrow a hero from another player and that hero survives the battle, does "...returning it at the end." mean that the card goes back into the original owner's discard pile? Or does it go into his/her hand?


Re 1 - Yes it has been confirmed that it's every other player - it's in the rules section at the end under card clarifications.
 
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Günter Immeyer
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Oh, cool. Thank you!

But which rulebook are you referring to exactly? I only own the base game and in my rulebook, version 1.4, there is no such clarification on the Selurin Theurge (well, there is an entry in the "Card Glossary" on page 22, but no explicit differentiation whether the card was meant to say "each player" or "each other player").

Can I download the latest PDF somewhere?
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Jason Robinette
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I'm not sure that the "returning" portion is really clear that it goes to the discards.

Not to mention the fact that it's crazy overpowered in a 2-player game... for a 2-player game, at least, I think the hero (should they survive) should be returned to the owner's hand from whence they came.

J
 
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Chris Olson
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Thanos wrote:
...I think the hero (should they survive) should be returned to the owner's hand from whence they came.


We were wondering about this the other night: if a Monster's Battle Effect is to destroy one hero, can you choose to have the borrowed hero be destroyed? We said no, since the card instructs to return the hero at the end, but we weren't sure.
 
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Leo IronRush
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colson3 wrote:
Thanos wrote:
...I think the hero (should they survive) should be returned to the owner's hand from whence they came.


We were wondering about this the other night: if a Monster's Battle Effect is to destroy one hero, can you choose to have the borrowed hero be destroyed? We said no, since the card instructs to return the hero at the end, but we weren't sure.


I think the answer for this is YES.
This effect occur end of the battle. So both things occur on the end of the battle on same time (Monster battle effect and Selurin borrow return). When this things happen, the active player choice what will be first.
 
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Ryan Metzler
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Miraculix wrote:
Two little detail questions regarding the "Selurin Theurge" hero:

Selurin Theurge wrote:
DUNGEON: Each player discards one Hero or shows that they have none. You may borrow one of these discarded Heroes for the battle, returning it at the end.

1) Has it been officially confirmed that the above text was meant to say "Each other player discards one Hero..."? => Several other rules threads in these forums seem to agree on/indicate that, but you never know...

2) If the "Selurin Theurge" player does borrow a hero from another player and that hero survives the battle, does "...returning it at the end." mean that the card goes back into the original owner's discard pile? Or does it go into his/her hand?


1) Indeed, each OTHER player
2) It goes to that player's discard pile
 
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Emily H.
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colson3 wrote:
Thanos wrote:
...I think the hero (should they survive) should be returned to the owner's hand from whence they came.


We were wondering about this the other night: if a Monster's Battle Effect is to destroy one hero, can you choose to have the borrowed hero be destroyed? We said no, since the card instructs to return the hero at the end, but we weren't sure.


Wow. So I was just playing this on Yucata, and I remember I intentionally didn't attack a monster that destroyed a hero because the only one I had was my Selurin Theurge. I had borrowed a hero, but in my wildest dreams I never thought you could destroy the borrowed hero. Of course, it was several turns later when I noticed that all my heroes were gone from my opponent's Theurge. I couldn't believe it, so I searched around and found this thread. Needless to say, I'm pretty shocked to discover that a card that is already overpowered is even more powerful.

Anyway, if anyone else is searching, Yucata implements the Theurge borrowing ability so that you can destroy the hero you borrow. Not that Yucata is necessarily the end-all on rules, but it seems to confirm the above poster's interpretation.
 
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