Recommend
18 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Eminent Domain» Forums » General

Subject: Planet breakdown rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since not everybody has played a Print & Play copy of Eminent Domain, I thought it might be useful to explain the breakdown of the planet cards in the game. I won't list each planet, as that information is not useful - rather I'll let you know what kinds of things are available from each type of planet, and the range of costs, as everything is equally distributed.

Each planet type has its own flavor - each one is "good at" 2 of the 6 roles in the game:

Advanced is good at Research and Trade roles
Fertile is good at Colonize and Produce roles
Metallic is good at Survey and Warfare roles

What do I mean by "good at?" I mean that on a Metallic planet you may find a Survey symbol or a Warfare symbol, but never a Trade symbol. In addition, each Metallic technology card has either a Survey symbol or a Warfare symbol on it (level 2 technologies have 2 of either or else both!)

There are actually 9 planets of each type, and here is the breakdown:
3 Advanced - Research
3 Advanced - Trade
2 Advanced - Hand Size +1
1 Advanced - extra VP (worth more points because it has no effect)

3 Fertile - Colonize
3 Fertile - Produce
2 Fertile - Hand Size +1
1 Fertile - extra VP (worth more points because it has no effect)

3 Metallic - Survey
3 Metallic - Warfare
2 Metallic - Hand Size +1
1 Metallic - extra VP (worth more points because it has no effect)

The costs are evenly distributed between...
3-Colonize/6-Warfare
4-Colonize/5-Warfare
5-Colonize/4-Warfare

So if you see an Advanced planet that costs 3/6, you can infer that it has either a Trade symbol, a Research symbol, or no symbol while if you see an Advanced planet with a cost of 5/4 you can bet it'll have either Research, Trade, or Hand Size +1.

In addition, planets have resource slots. Each planet has it's own type of resource - Advanced planets provide Silicon, Metallic planets provide Iron, and Fertile planets provide either Food or Water - sometimes both! Some people have questioned why there are different types when they seem to be equivalent. I don't personally understand why that's even a question, but by way of an answer I can tell you that resource slots are most abundant on Fertile planets, while they appear least often on Metallic planets. As a result, Metallic planets are worth more points on the average than Fertile planets. Advanced planets are somewhere in between. There are 3 technology cards which can be used to take advantage of either specializing or diversifying in the types of resources you produce and trade.

How is this useful? Well, you get to see the back of the top planet card before choosing whether to survey or not. Knowing for example that there might be a Research symbol on that Advanced planet, or that there might be 2 resource slots on that Fertile planet, might make you more or less likely to want to follow another player's Survey role!

Also, since planet types give you access to technology cards, the fact that the type ties into the roles can help a player choose and pursue a strategic path. It's kind of like the colors in Magic: the Gathering, where Green sort of specializes in creatures, Blue specializes in countermagic, and Red specializes in direct damage. Each planet type in Eminent Domain can help you specialize in one or two of the roles in the game.
17 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Skov
Denmark
Copenhagen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sedjtroll wrote:
that there might be 2 resource slots on that Fertile planet

Fixed that for you
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nom_ wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:
that there might be 2 resource slots on that Fertile planet

Fixed that for you

Oops! Thanks for that I have edited it so as to read properly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Kaiser
United States
Aurora
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's a related planet question. When you buy a technology card do you have to have the specific planet type listed in the lower right of the tech card as opposed to any type of planet?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
alkaiser wrote:
Here's a related planet question. When you buy a technology card do you have to have the specific planet type listed in the lower right of the tech card as opposed to any type of planet?

Yes! You cannot study a Metalic planet do not have a Metalic planet in your Empire!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luca Iennaco
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
sedjtroll wrote:
Some people have questioned why there are different types when they seem to be equivalent. I don't personally understand why that's even a question, but by way of an answer I can tell you that resource slots are most abundant on Fertile planets, while they appear least often on Metallic planets.

The question is... are 4 kinds of resources there just for flavour?
If there was only a single resource (called "sethonium crystals", gold or whatever) the game would work exactly the same, wouldn't it?
Games with multiple resources differentiate between them for a reason... e.g in San Juan or Puerto Rico you sell them at different prices; in Catan you need different combinations to build a road or a colony; etc.

If the answer is "yes" (at it seems), I find it surprising that you - as a designer - do not understand it (I do not discuss your right to use different resource "just for flavor", but not understanding why people are baffled by it... It is as if instead of a single "Warfare" card type there were "Warfare", "Belligerant", "Retaliator" and "Aggressive" cards, but all with exactly the same effect in game. Would not you be surprised by this confusing some people?).

I am looking forward to trying the game, in any case.

(I've written this post not to be polemic, but to try to explain to you why the question arises and should in fact be expected... OR to learn that the resources are different for a reason escaping me at the moment, as I've only read the rulebook. Maybe some techs allow you to consume food, but not iron, to get some effect... or something like that.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chuck Parrott
United States
Wilmington
North Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There are 3 tech cards that need resources to use and I think they require specific types of resources so that's at least part of it. It also makes adding expansions that introduce new features requiring specific resources possible without having to retrofit the game. Another 'feature' is that the resources by type are limited but I have no clue if that was intended or not and what you would do if it did come up in a game. It hasn't for me yet.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luca Iennaco
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
cparrott wrote:
Another 'feature' is that the resources by type are limited

The rulebook (the one I've read, at least) says that the supply is supposed to be unlimited.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chuck Parrott
United States
Wilmington
North Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I must have missed that in my reading of the rules before playing, thanks for pointing it out. Hasn't come up yet anyways, so probably a non-issue for now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luca Iennaco
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
cparrott wrote:
I must have missed that in my reading of the rules before playing, thanks for pointing it out. Hasn't come up yet anyways, so probably a non-issue for now.

Resources are not piece limited. If you run out of tokens of one color, use another color token as a proxy.
It's the last sentence in the "Produce" explanation, page 12, left column.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Indeed, resource tokens are not intended to be piece limited.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cparrott wrote:
There are 3 tech cards that need resources to use and I think they require specific types of resources so that's at least part of it. It also makes adding expansions that introduce new features requiring specific resources possible without having to retrofit the game. Another 'feature' is that the resources by type are limited but I have no clue if that was intended or not and what you would do if it did come up in a game. It hasn't for me yet.


Currently there are 3 Technology cards that refer to TYPE of resource...

Specialization: Choose a resource TYPE, that resource trades for an additional Influence this turn.
Diverse Markets: +1 Influence for each TYPE of resource you trade this turn.
Genetic Engineering: +1 Influence for each TYPE of resource you produce this turn.

In addition, as Chuck points out, differentiating the resources leaves room to create more techs or dynamics that refer to specific resources, something I have considered and am considering for future expansions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Luke the Flaming wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:
Some people have questioned why there are different types when they seem to be equivalent. I don't personally understand why that's even a question, but by way of an answer I can tell you that resource slots are most abundant on Fertile planets, while they appear least often on Metallic planets.

The question is... are 4 kinds of resources there just for flavour?
If there was only a single resource (called "sethonium crystals", gold or whatever) the game would work exactly the same, wouldn't it?


Until technology cards that refer to resource types come into play, yes.

Quote:
Games with multiple resources differentiate between them for a reason... e.g in San Juan or Puerto Rico you sell them at different prices; in Catan you need different combinations to build a road or a colony; etc.

If the answer is "yes" (at it seems), I find it surprising that you - as a designer - do not understand it (I do not discuss your right to use different resource "just for flavor", but not understanding why people are baffled by it... It is as if instead of a single "Warfare" card type there were "Warfare", "Belligerant", "Retaliator" and "Aggressive" cards, but all with exactly the same effect in game. Would not you be surprised by this confusing some people?).

If all of the resources appeared on all of the different planets in a random or haphazard manner, then i would agree with you.

The simple answer to the question "what's the difference between Iron and Silicon" is "Iron comes from Metallic planets and Silicon comes from Advanced planets." A slightly more technical answer that a player may wish to know (and could learn by examining the planet cards) is that Iron is a little bit more rare than Silicon, because there are fewer Metallic planets with Resource slots than there are Advanced planets with resource slots.

The reason I don't understand why it's a question is because nothing in the rules indicates that they are different, so until something comes into play that says so, the obvious "iron comes from Metallic planets" should suffice to answer that question before it's asked.

Your example of " instead of a single "Warfare" card type there were "Warfare", "Belligerant", "Retaliator" and "Aggressive" cards, but all with exactly the same effect in game" is not the same thing, because there are things in the game and rules that refer to "Warfare" as opposed to "Belligerent, etc.

Quote:
I am looking forward to trying the game, in any case.

Good, I hope you like it!

Quote:
(I've written this post not to be polemic, but to try to explain to you why the question arises and should in fact be expected... OR to learn that the resources are different for a reason escaping me at the moment, as I've only read the rulebook. Maybe some techs allow you to consume food, but not iron, to get some effect... or something like that.)

As you see now from this post (and could glean from the back cover of the rulebook) - there are indeed tech cards that refer to resource type. And I have plans to refer to type, or specific types, in the future.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luca Iennaco
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
Nice to know.
Good luck with the (sales and success of the) game!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shaun
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sedjtroll wrote:


The reason I don't understand why it's a question is because nothing in the rules indicates that they are different, so until something comes into play that says so, the obvious "iron comes from Metallic planets" should suffice to answer that question before it's asked.



This is exactly why the question comes up. Nothing in the rules indicates that they are different, but they are different colors and they have different names. People wonder why they look different when they behave identically. A little blurb in the rules stating that some tech cards require certain combinations of resources might dispel all of the questions regarding this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bipf wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:


The reason I don't understand why it's a question is because nothing in the rules indicates that they are different, so until something comes into play that says so, the obvious "iron comes from Metallic planets" should suffice to answer that question before it's asked.



This is exactly why the question comes up. Nothing in the rules indicates that they are different, but they are different colors and they have different names. People wonder why they look different when they behave identically. A little blurb in the rules stating that some tech cards require certain combinations of resources might dispel all of the questions regarding this.

I see what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you... maybe the next time I write an Eminent Domain rulebook I'll make a special note.

Philosophically though, there's a right and wrong way to write rules. I'll give a parallel example from my real-world job...

I'm a structural engineer. We prepare structural plans for buildings. Something it might say on those plans (which are a legal document) is "all wood studs shall be Doug-Fir Larch stud grade or better". This is just an example mind you. I used to have a boss that, when asked by a plan checker (city official) "why doesn't it say you cannot use (for example) Hem-Fir wood for the studs?", would like to respond "It also does not say you can land an airplane on the roof."

The point is that in a set of rules, you don't list everything you cannot do. that would take infinite pages. Instead you list only the things that you can do. In the case of Eminent Domain, the rules say you can exchange 1 resource for 1 Influence with a Trade action. It does not say you can trade a Silicon resource for 2 Influence (because you can't do that) or anything like that. So strictly speaking, there is more than enough information provided to describe how the resources work.

Granted, many people prefer redundancy in rules, and like to have things spelled out that, strictly speaking, are not necessary to communicate the rule. Rules writing is difficult, and I will try to incorporate these types of preferences, but as a starting point I begin with just the facts.

I'll also note that the planet types have different colors/pictures and different names, and nothing says that they are different until you read the Research role rules...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shaun
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sedjtroll wrote:
Bipf wrote:
[q="sedjtroll"]

The reason I don't understand why it's a question is because nothing in the rules indicates that they are different, so until something comes into play that says so, the obvious "iron comes from Metallic planets" should suffice to answer that question before it's asked.


I'll also note that the planet types have different colors/pictures and different names, and nothing says that they are different until you read the Research role rules...


The main difference in this example is that it was still addressed in the rulebook. I've played two games of EmDo so far, both of which I enjoyed. In both games, someone asked if the colors/types of the resources mattered, and the person teaching the game only found the answer by looking over the tech cards. It would have been nice for that person to find it written in the rules somewhere.

I imagine some people are bothered by this, and others aren't. Another example of this are the monster tokens in D&D: Castle Ravenloft. There isn't a description of these until you read one of the scenarios. Then it describes what they are for. I would have liked to have had 1 sentence in the main rulebook telling me as much.

Like you said, rulebook writing is difficult, but I appreciate your openness to feed back.

To be honest, my friends and I would have loved to have seen an example of a round of game play, mainly with selecting a role, and whether or not the symbol on that role card is applied to the player selecting it. 3 of us, all of whom have played tons of games, interpreted the role selection process in 3 different ways. I ended up being correct, but the other interpretations were valid.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Kaiser
United States
Aurora
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sedjtroll wrote:

The point is that in a set of rules, you don't list everything you cannot do. that would take infinite pages. Instead you list only the things that you can do. In the case of Eminent Domain, the rules say you can exchange 1 resource for 1 Influence with a Trade action. It does not say you can trade a Silicon resource for 2 Influence (because you can't do that) or anything like that. So strictly speaking, there is more than enough information provided to describe how the resources work.


Spoken like a true engineer! I completely agree with this but BGG is full of rule lawyer types that are more than willing to subject rulebooks to their decidedly non-engineer tendencies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shaun
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
alkaiser wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:

The point is that in a set of rules, you don't list everything you cannot do. that would take infinite pages. Instead you list only the things that you can do. In the case of Eminent Domain, the rules say you can exchange 1 resource for 1 Influence with a Trade action. It does not say you can trade a Silicon resource for 2 Influence (because you can't do that) or anything like that. So strictly speaking, there is more than enough information provided to describe how the resources work.


Spoken like a true engineer! I completely agree with this but BGG is full of rule lawyer types that are more than willing to subject rulebooks to their decidedly non-engineer tendencies.


I think in this case it's more about curiosity. There is also no reason to have 3 different sized space ships, but the rules explicitly say that they are used interchangeably.

The rules state that all resources can be traded for 1 influence. That's clear enough. The next thought some people have is: "Why are they different, if they can be exchanged for the same thing?" Then, if someone reads through the Tech cards, they will know the answer. If they read the rulebook quick and jump into a game without looking at the Tech cards, like we did, they won't know the answer until a specific tech card pops up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bipf wrote:
There is also no reason to have 3 different sized space ships, but the rules explicitly say that they are used interchangeably.

That's a little different. The reason I didn't say they were denominations of 1/3/5 or anything like that is because I have plans to assign different meaning to the different sized ships in a future expansion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shaun
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sedjtroll wrote:
Bipf wrote:
There is also no reason to have 3 different sized space ships, but the rules explicitly say that they are used interchangeably.

That's a little different. The reason I didn't say they were denominations of 1/3/5 or anything like that is because I have plans to assign different meaning to the different sized ships in a future expansion.


Aha! That's what we were thinking

Anyway, I think the game is great. Thanks for your involvement on these forums.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.