Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
33 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Chaos in the Old World» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can Slaanesh and Tzeetch gain more than one DAC per region per round? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mr Suplex
msg tools
Can Slaanesh and Tzeentch gain more than one DAC per region per round? Khorne and Nurgle explicitly state that they can gain one per region per game phase, but Slaanesh and Tzeentch do not and thus I believe they can only get one per round per region.

Their cards each state "Place a counter on your dial each time you place two or more corruption tokens in a region with X"

I have seen some interpret this to mean that Slaanesh and Tzeetch can gain one DAC per action that places two or more corruption in a qualifying region, but this gets into a messy debate about what constitutes an "action", as well as the point that the text explicitly states "two OR MORE", which is inclusive of any number of corruption greater than two.

Has this ever been officially answered? Is there a general consensus within the game community? I realize that this is probably not an issue 95% of the time, but it still bugs me and I'd like some clarification. There are two possible interpretations that each are plausible, and I'd love to know what the intention of the rule is. Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick G.
United States
Glenshaw
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Does your religion have lightsabers? Nope? Didn't think so.
badge
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." Agent K. Oh my what he would think of people had he known about what the internet would become.....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Through some cards it is possible to place corruption in the summoning phase and for nurgle in the combat phase. This would could as more DAC than 1 per turn per territory. Sorry I am at work and can't look up specific examples.

But yes... their dial advancement trigger can happen once per territory per PHASE. not TURN.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Suplex
msg tools
corkysru wrote:
Through some cards it is possible to place corruption in the summoning phase and for nurgle in the combat phase. This would could as more DAC than 1 per turn per territory. Sorry I am at work and can't look up specific examples.

But yes... their dial advancement trigger can happen once per territory per PHASE. not TURN.


You are right, some cards do make it possible to place corruption in phases other than the corruption phase.

I don't agree that it can happen per phase for Slaanesh and Tzeentch, though. If this was the intetion, they would have this explicitly stated in their DAC conditions, similar to how it is explained for Khorne and Nurgle.

For example

Nurgle states:

"Place a counter on your dial each time you place two or more corruption tokens on a Populous region in the same phase".

Slaanesh states:

"Place a counter on your dial each time you place two or more corruption tokens in a region with a Noble token or Hero token"

No mention is made that this is on a per phase basis for Slaanesh (Tzeentch has similar text), and since "two or more" is said, this is inclusive of all corruption past the second token placed. The other school of interpretation is that this is intended on a "per action" basis, but I'm not sure I buy that.

Either way, its clearly not "per phase".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick G.
United States
Glenshaw
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Does your religion have lightsabers? Nope? Didn't think so.
badge
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." Agent K. Oh my what he would think of people had he known about what the internet would become.....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr Suplex wrote:
corkysru wrote:
Through some cards it is possible to place corruption in the summoning phase and for nurgle in the combat phase. This would could as more DAC than 1 per turn per territory. Sorry I am at work and can't look up specific examples.

But yes... their dial advancement trigger can happen once per territory per PHASE. not TURN.


You are right, some cards do make it possible to place corruption in phases other than the corruption phase.

I don't agree that it can happen per phase for Slaanesh and Tzeentch, though. If this was the intetion, they would have this explicitly stated in their DAC conditions, similar to how it is explained for Khorne and Nurgle.

For example

Nurgle states:

"Place a counter on your dial each time you place two or more corruption tokens on a Populous region in the same phase".

Slaanesh states:

"Place a counter on your dial each time you place two or more corruption tokens in a region with a Noble token or Hero token"

No mention is made that this is on a per phase basis for Slaanesh (Tzeentch has similar text), and since "two or more" is said, this is inclusive of all corruption past the second token placed. The other school of interpretation is that this is intended on a "per action" basis, but I'm not sure I buy that.

Either way, its clearly not "per phase".


You are correct. I am wrong. We actually just had this debate this weekend. I for some reason fell into my original argument despite having seen that I was wrong.

My apologies.

One more reason why nurgle's dial advancement condition is a bit twisted. I guess the only thing that balances it out is the fact that there are fewer populous regions and they tend to get ruined quickly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian McCormick
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Tasteless Brute
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would be very curious to hear how Tzeentch or Slaanesh would even be able to place Corruption in any phase other than the Corruption phase

I'm aware that Slaanesh has a Chaos card that lets him drop a Corruption token but it specifically says "you do not gain dial advancement from this".

Are there new abilities in Horned Rat that allow these two Chaos forces to grab dial tokens in phases other than the Corruption phase?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joseph Cochran
United States
Costa Mesa
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
Aurendrosl wrote:
Are there new abilities in Horned Rat that allow these two Chaos forces to grab dial tokens in phases other than the Corruption phase?


The biggest game changer for Slaanesh in that regard is his upgrade that allows two DAC's from a corruption token placement of 3 or more tokens. That is brutal. It's still inside the Corruption phase though.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Suplex
msg tools
Aurendrosl wrote:
Are there new abilities in Horned Rat that allow these two Chaos forces to grab dial tokens in phases other than the Corruption phase?


Yeah, Horned Rat expansion makes this more likely to happen. The Tzeentch card The Blue Scribes is one example.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Suplex
msg tools
corkysru wrote:
You are correct. I am wrong. We actually just had this debate this weekend. I for some reason fell into my original argument despite having seen that I was wrong.

My apologies.


No worries man...the rules are very subtle in many cases.

I still want to know though if Slaanesh/Tzeentch are one per round or once per "action"...I honestly don't know. I hope they FAQ this...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick G.
United States
Glenshaw
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Does your religion have lightsabers? Nope? Didn't think so.
badge
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." Agent K. Oh my what he would think of people had he known about what the internet would become.....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr Suplex wrote:
corkysru wrote:
You are correct. I am wrong. We actually just had this debate this weekend. I for some reason fell into my original argument despite having seen that I was wrong.

My apologies.


No worries man...the rules are very subtle in many cases.

I still want to know though if Slaanesh/Tzeentch are one per round or once per "action"...I honestly don't know. I hope they FAQ this...

I would say since they don't specify per phase it is per turn.
It just seems bit unfair compared to nurgle.. oh well.

Well.. sort of unfair.. I mean with the new cards now its easier to get for Slaanesh/Tzeentch because they can spread it out over various phases... meh.. I don't know if it is easier or harder...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew
Japan
Tokyo
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I assumed they were all per region per phase, 'cuz that would make things consistent. shake

On p3 (describing Reborn in Blood) and p6 (describing the Great Unclean One) of the FAQ, it's written "Once the a player fulfills his dial advancement condition for one region in the phase, that condition is fulfilled for the remainder of the phase within that region."

Furthermore you could argue that "per phase" is a restriction and therefore its absence does not make the condition more restrictive (for Tzeentch and Slaanesh).

However with the exception of The Blue Scribes, I'm not sure how Slaanesh or Tzeentch could put down corruption outside of the Corruption phase, so perhaps this isn't so important overall.
Edit: I misread Havoc as putting down corruption during the corruption phase, not the battle phase.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Suplex
msg tools
That's the problem...I see reasonable arguments for multiple interpretations. I wish the designers could just answer my query...I'm sure it would take them 2 minutes to clarify what their intention was. Oh well...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L L
msg tools
I took a look on every god´s card in czech version on internet and on every one of them is explicitly written "per region per phase" including Slaanesh and Tzeentch.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Schuster
Germany
Bretten
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thats interesting. Just as interesting might be looking at other language versions. Found a spanish and a portuguese one here. I am not proficient with any of these languages but you can judge from looking at the sheets and comparing words. Apart from other differences in language, the keyword "fase" does not appear in these descriptions.




1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed Bradley
United Kingdom
Haverhill
Suffolk
flag msg tools
badge
The best things in life aren't things.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've always played that everyone can only get a maximum of one DAC per phase per region for any reason.
I can't remember where I got the rule from but it certainly prevents a lot of rules issues like these.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Suplex
msg tools
ICaneus wrote:
I took a look on every god´s card in czech version on internet and on every one of them is explicitly written "per region per phase" including Slaanesh and Tzeentch.


Interesting evidence of what the designers' intent was...or just perhaps a slip up in translation given what Umbratus just posted...ugh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed Bradley
United Kingdom
Haverhill
Suffolk
flag msg tools
badge
The best things in life aren't things.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If I find ambiguity (and I'm not saying I did in this case ) I usually just go with the ruling that causes the fewest problems/book-keeping/rage.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Schuster
Germany
Bretten
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ed, your simplification is quite desirable. However, it is out of the question if someone can gain more than one DAC per region per phase. That is not applying to anyone. The point is whether all gods can gain a DAC each phase in the same region or just once per round.

Khorne and Nurgle player sheets say they may gain a DAC per region per phase.
Tzeentch and Slaanesh player sheets say they may gain a DAC per region - period.

It was not an issue with the base game, since there was no option for Tzeentch and Slaanesh to place corruption during any other phase than corruption phase (PerverseInfiltration the single exception but the card explicitely stated that you may NOT earn a DAC through it).

Now, with the expansion, there are also options for Tzeentch and Slaanesh to place corruption during other phases (summoning+battle phase). So there is an issue, especially since different language versions give different definitions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed Bradley
United Kingdom
Haverhill
Suffolk
flag msg tools
badge
The best things in life aren't things.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Umbratus wrote:
Ed, your simplification is quite desirable. However, it is out of the question if someone can gain more than one DAC per region per phase. That is not applying to anyone. The point is whether all gods can gain a DAC each phase in the same region or just once per round.

Khorne and Nurgle player sheets say they may gain a DAC per region per phase.
Tzeentch and Slaanesh player sheets say they may gain a DAC per region - period.

It was not an issue with the base game, since there was no option for Tzeentch and Slaanesh to place corruption during any other phase than corruption phase (PerverseInfiltration the single exception but the card explicitely stated that you may NOT earn a DAC through it).

Now, with the expansion, there are also options for Tzeentch and Slaanesh to place corruption during other phases (summoning+battle phase). So there is an issue, especially since different language versions give different definitions.


Well if the new cards are useless without the "one per phase per region" rule then I like it even more
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Schuster
Germany
Bretten
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, their functions are far from useless even when they dont earn a DAC.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick G.
United States
Glenshaw
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Does your religion have lightsabers? Nope? Didn't think so.
badge
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." Agent K. Oh my what he would think of people had he known about what the internet would become.....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fwing wrote:
Umbratus wrote:
Ed, your simplification is quite desirable. However, it is out of the question if someone can gain more than one DAC per region per phase. That is not applying to anyone. The point is whether all gods can gain a DAC each phase in the same region or just once per round.

Khorne and Nurgle player sheets say they may gain a DAC per region per phase.
Tzeentch and Slaanesh player sheets say they may gain a DAC per region - period.

It was not an issue with the base game, since there was no option for Tzeentch and Slaanesh to place corruption during any other phase than corruption phase (PerverseInfiltration the single exception but the card explicitely stated that you may NOT earn a DAC through it).

Now, with the expansion, there are also options for Tzeentch and Slaanesh to place corruption during other phases (summoning+battle phase). So there is an issue, especially since different language versions give different definitions.


Well if the new cards are useless without the "one per phase per region" rule then I like it even more

They are far from useless.

And if you like only because it cripples those god's abilities, that is a despicable reason.

The point is to balance the gods. Grant it, even with that interpretation it actually helps the gods.. they need not place both corruption in the same phase... just 2 corruption per turn. This means they won't need to stack up cultists as much.

It really could go either way. It is such a pain(due to random order of cards drawn, other players interference etc etc) with the new cards to get more than 1 corruption in phases other than corruption phase that it is mostly a moot point. But I would still like to know.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex H.
Germany
Berlin
flag msg tools
badge
welcome your reptilian overlords!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Looks like this needs to be sent to FFG as an official rules question.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Forrey
United States
Dallastown
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
it certainly does and the odds of it actually being answered and answered correctly within this century are pretty slim. :/
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick G.
United States
Glenshaw
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Does your religion have lightsabers? Nope? Didn't think so.
badge
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." Agent K. Oh my what he would think of people had he known about what the internet would become.....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bearn wrote:
it certainly does and the odds of it actually being answered and answered correctly within this century are pretty slim. :/

Oh yes. FFG always takes at least 20 years before answering all questions.
And since the world will end next year you must be right about not getting an answer THIS CENTURY.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Schuster
Germany
Bretten
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I already sent it in. I've been getting answers within a day or two, sometimes after a week and sometimes never at all. Its been a while since I sent something in, so no clue what the response times currently are.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Suplex
msg tools
alex352 wrote:
Looks like this needs to be sent to FFG as an official rules question.


I sent this in a few days ago myself, along with the question of how many Old World Cards are used with the Horned Rat player involved.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.