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Twilight Struggle» Forums » Rules

Subject: Quagmire + Missile Envy + Red Scare/Purge = Loss of turn? rss

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Razzmataz
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Played TS on WGR and this situation arose.

Turn 5, AR 7: USSR plays Quagmire for the event and I (US) fail the roll and so the Quagmire continues.

Turn 6 Headline: USSR plays Missile Envy.

Turn 6 AR 1: USSR plays Red Scare/Purge for the event.

Now the question in this situation is do I (US):

1. Discard a 3 op or higher card (due to Red Scare) to get out of Quagmire and once I get out do I then play Missile Envy for its ops?

OR

2. Must I try to discard Missile Envy immediately, in which case since it is now a 1 op card I cannot play (or even try to discard a card) for the entire turn?
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Best rules question for TS I've seen in ages. I don't know the answer.

A strict reading would be that Missile Envy is now 1OP, unplayable, but also required, making you lose a full seven action rounds until it becomes a 2OP card again the following turn.

That's pretty rough. I don't see anything in the collected rulings indicating that you're allowed to discard other cards from your hand in this situation. But I would not be surprised if you were allowed to.

Unless it's specifically been ruled on somewhere, I'd ask Jason Matthews or Ananda Gupta to answer.
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Alex H.
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JohnRayJr wrote:


Unless it's specifically been ruled on somewhere, I'd ask Jason Matthews or Ananda Gupta to answer.


I think this would be the right approach here. Please report back if you get an answer!
As you need 3 specific cards it could only be done with tons of luck but losing a whole turn would basically end the game. Not sure what ruling I would like to see here.
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Edward
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This has been discussed before:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/514758/having-missile-envy-w...
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/6293826#6293826
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/4064655#4064655

There is no official ruling, but it seems that the general consensus is that you discard a 3Ops card, then play Missile Envy ASAP.
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James Nye
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EDIT - Never mind, I misread the post. This did come up last night on VASSAL, where I Quagmire/Purge/Missile Envied, and he had no 3 OPS cards to discard. So I had the turn all to myself cool
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Razzmataz
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Thanks for the responses everyone!

WGR implemented the second choice which basically forced me to lose the game. Very glad to hear that the consensus says that I should have been discarding a 3 ops card, although it would still be nice if there was an official ruling.
I probably would have lost the game anyway, but it was really depressing just sitting there as I watch the board fill with USSR influence.

Thanks for the other discussions theory! It was interesting seeing this situation described as a thought experiment in the other threads and then actually have the situation happen to you. Even though I lost the game, I must say that it was really cool being a part of a "one in a million" play of Twilight Struggle!
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Razzmataz
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JohnRayJr wrote:
Best rules question for TS I've seen in ages. I don't know the answer.

A strict reading would be that Missile Envy is now 1OP, unplayable, but also required, making you lose a full seven action rounds until it becomes a 2OP card again the following turn.

That's pretty rough. I don't see anything in the collected rulings indicating that you're allowed to discard other cards from your hand in this situation. But I would not be surprised if you were allowed to.

Unless it's specifically been ruled on somewhere, I'd ask Jason Matthews or Ananda Gupta to answer.


Yeah. I was just thinking about other possibilities if this were the case. Just imagine if your opponent was then able to pick up Red Scare/ Purge again through play of SALT Negotiations or Star Wars. I could see this going on for a good 3 or 4 turns (with a lucky deck reshuffle) if the first choice was implemented.

I believe that the two choices can be argued very well both ways but I agree that the [EDIT 2] second option seems to be a very severe penalty for an unlucky series of events.

EDIT: spelling mistake
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Michael Kiefte
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scrivenerjones wrote:
This did come up last night on VASSAL, where I Quagmire/Purge/Missile Envied, and he had no 3 OPS cards to discard. So I had the turn all to myself cool


The VASSAL rules are a pretty literal interpretation of the written rules, but I obviously didn't expect this to happen. Enjoy your victory while you can.

It's actually quite astonishing how complicated the VASSAL module has gotten. They're are a lot of weird combinations that are pretty hard to predict.
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Jason Weed
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mkiefte wrote:
They're are a lot of weird combinations that are pretty hard to predict.


In Twilight Struggle, no, you must be thinking of another game, lol.
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Michael Kiefte
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scrivenerjones wrote:
EDIT - Never mind, I misread the post. This did come up last night on VASSAL, where I Quagmire/Purge/Missile Envied, and he had no 3 OPS cards to discard. So I had the turn all to myself cool


I just checked and the VASSAL module does this correctly. If Missile Envy isn't worth 2 Ops, it doesn't force you to play it. I guess I misunderstood your post.
 
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Jason Hael
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Thanks for asking this way back when!
Similar situation just came up in our game tonight. USSR headlined Quagmire. On AR1 played Missle Envy and the high US card was RedScare/Purge. We followed protocol here, US dumped a 3ops card and rolled out of Quagmire, then played the forced Missle Envy for 1op on AR2.
 
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