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Agricola: Gamers' Deck» Forums » General

Subject: Hermit -- why not make it 100 Bonus Points and be done with it? rss

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Jim Cobb
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The Hermit card gives six bonus points if you simply don't play any more Occupations. This seems like way too many points just for not doing something. I had it show up in two games this weekend, and the winner had it in both.

Does it seem too strong to anyone else?


 
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Andrew Foerster
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Uh ... I'm pretty sure it's going to be six points at game end, not every round.

Addendum: and not playing any more occupations can be pretty limiting (but not necessarily so).
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Lacombe
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Suddenly a shot rang out! A door slammed. The maid screamed. Suddenly a pirate ship appeared on the horizon! While millions of people were starving, the king lived in luxury. Meanwhile, on a small farm in Kansas, a boy was growing up.
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It gives you bonus points for every occupation you don't play or something? [It's hard to discuss something unless the OP gives the exact card text.]

That's positively brilliant. The chief complaint against the game is that one player can get "all the good cards" or that it's "just about the cards you draw".

A card like what I'm assuming this to be basically says "Fine, here's a card to either force you not to play all your great cards or to make up for not drawing any."

6 points for one action is ridiculously insane, you're right... but within the prevailing context of the game and with the added restrictions, it's just wonderful.
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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Here's a link to a Hermit card. Is this the official card?
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/823572/trey-alsup
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Geoff Burkman
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The exact text reads: "At the end of the game, you receive 6 bonus points
if this is the only occupation you have played."

That's a strong card, yes. But, as has been pointed out, it also is a fairly restrictive card. It essentially prohibits any further Ocks from being played, and thereby will prevent the play of any and all Minors that require more than one Ock. That's a very hefty chunk of Minors that have just been disqualified along with every other Ock in the player's hand. Also, the opposing players will now have an easier time playing their own Ocks. It's an interesting trade-off.

Lastly, two games isn't nearly a large enough sample size to determine if the card is all that unbalanced.
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Buz
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The card requires that this be the ONLY occupation played, not merely the last one.

As such, it limits you quite a bit not only with occ abilities but also with minor improvement prerequisites. I'd say it's a nice balance.
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Jonathan Franklin
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I love the idea of giving everyone a hermit card at the start of the game.

That would eliminate half the whining in Agricola in one fell swoop.
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Hanno Girke
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Legen*dairy Deck wrote:
You give all your sheep to the Hermit. He gives you that many wood.


Yeah, I know, it's not an occupation, but an event. But still...
 
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Trey Alsup
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Jim Cobb wrote:
The Hermit card gives six bonus points if you simply don't play any more Occupations. This seems like way too many points just for not doing something. I had it show up in two games this weekend, and the winner had it in both.

Does it seem too strong to anyone else?



Its a much stronger card if you are playing the standard Agricola game and not drafting. In the draft game, it is barely played at all and wins less than average - such is the very high opportunity cost of not playing an occupation.

The other real weakness of the Hermit is that it locks you out of all the minor improvements that have occupation requirements- as a group these are probably the strongest cards in the game (duck pond, quarry, fruit tree, plows, etc.)
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Benjamin Kerenza
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Hanno wrote:
Legen*dairy Deck wrote:
You give all your sheep to the Hermit. He gives you that many wood.


Yeah, I know, it's not an occupation, but an event. But still...


Isn't it a minor improvement?
 
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Mike T
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Wow. Did not think Hermit would be the card to draw complaints. At least not complaints about being overpowered!
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Matt Shields
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Jim Cobb wrote:
The Hermit card gives six bonus points if you simply don't play any more Occupations. This seems like way too many points just for not doing something. I had it show up in two games this weekend, and the winner had it in both.

Does it seem too strong to anyone else?


Not really, no. In fact most of my play group want to remove it from the game for being too weak (along with with things like Holiday House and Animal Feed.) I keep having to fight to keep him in the deck.

Admittedly, we always do a passing draft, and Hermit is better when you don't draft at all, but normally you're going to be able to net more than 6 points by playing occs. You're giving up a lot by playing him.
 
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Chris Deotte
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If you are playing your first games of Agricola, then the Hermit is strong.

If you have already played many games of Agricola then the Hermit is weak.

An experienced player can easily increase their score by more than 6 points by playing Occupations. Beginning players usually lower their score when they play Occupations.
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Jim Cobb
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Well, thanks for the feedback, everybody. Maybe it isn't overpowered, after all...it just fell into the hands of a player who prefers the Family game, anyway, and so worked out perfectly for her -- twice.

We had two interesting games, where the Hermit went to the same person both times. Another player was playing almost every card in his hand, and I went for a stodgy old well-rounded farm, with no real card help. (This happened both times!)

Both games ended about like this: The player with the Hermit card had a beautiful, full farm. The player with about eight or nine cards in front of him had one gigantic empty pasture covering almost every square of his farm, a five-room stone house, and 14 points for cards and bonuses. I had a mid-sized, well-rounded farm, though a bit sparse on animals.

The Hermit player won both times.

BTW, I'd like to mention a great (free!) Android app, called "Agricola Buddy". It's a nifty scoring app for Agricola...and no, I'm not the author, just a happy customer.

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Craig Hallstrom
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I think this card is certainly conditional - both on cards in hand and player preference/tendency. After having taught this game to my brother's family - the family version - we are now venturing into the cards. My nephew (13) has found great joy in deciding which cards to play and finding synergies. My neice (10) doesn't like the cards yet - she recognizes that she gets lost in them and plays too many without any benefit.
My guess is that my nephew would never play the Hermit.
My neice would always play it - and not begrudge the lost points from other profession synergies.
 
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Ido Abelman
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Jim Cobb wrote:
Both games ended about like this: The player with the Hermit card had a beautiful, full farm. The player with about eight or nine cards in front of him had one gigantic empty pasture covering almost every square of his farm, a five-room stone house, and 14 points for cards and bonuses. I had a mid-sized, well-rounded farm, though a bit sparse on animals.

This doesn't seem related to the hermit at all. It probably just means you didn't use your advantage (option to play occupations) well.
 
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