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Thunderstone: Dragonspire» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Purposely failing in the dungeon. rss

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Jeremy Olson
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If I read the rules correctly, a player can go to the dungeon with NO chance of winning, just to scare a monster to the bottom of the deck?

Take yesterdays game for example, where my friend kept scaring all the Magic Attack only enemies that I was better equipped to kill to the bottom. Is this legal? I guess it's strategic in a way, but it got rather annoying at a point...
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Edward Bolme
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Perfectly legal. That's when you want to grab a couple Creeping Deaths and get him back...
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Todd Rowland
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It is legal, and strategic, but the question is does that help him by giving up turns that he could be earning VP?
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Dan Cavaliere
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As already answered, yes this is legal. Another tactic is to use this method to prevent someone else from getting the Thunderstone in the end.

We've had some close games where there is a juicy monster and the stone ready to be grabbed up. If you can't get it on your turn, may as well try to prevent the next player(s) from getting it and keeping the game closer to a win in your favor.
 
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Guy Riessen
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its legal and very poor strategy early in the game, as you you are effectively both removing VPs and shortening the game. It is also risky at the end game unless you are already solidly in the lead because you are wasting a turn and gaining nothing in return, and you are potentially bringing an even more advantageous monster to the dungeon. In mid-game its less risky, but completely random how it might affect the game overall. With traps in the game, particularly death traps, it's even more foolhardy.

Basically it is usually not a good strategic move unless there is a breach monster that is unlikely to be defeated, and which will hurt you the most, or unless you have a solid lead and you're trying to swing the overall point balance away from your opponents. Also happens sometimes early in the game if the monsters clogging the dungeon all require strong magic attacks and there is little magic-attack strength in the early heroes.

If you're behind with no chance to win, you might strike a lucky batch of monsters using the technique, and, if nothing else, you'll shorten a game you can't win anyway--be prepared for king-making accusations.

All that said, it is of far more strategic use in a two player game where far less happens between your turns, than it is in a game with 4 players--you have to really want to fall on the sword of wasted turns to purposefully fail a dungeon raid and give 3 other players free-turns to acquire more/better heroes, or defeat the juicy monster(s) that come up after your turn.
 
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Keep in mind that failing a battle with a monster still activates its battle effects. Feeding 4-5 Militia to a Revenant/Cleansed/Water Wrath is a ridiculous advantage early on. Sometimes there's a chain of events, such as failing on Rank 1 Skaladak, destroying an obsolete dagger, and causing the the Rank 2 Bloodless to breach and attack your opponents' Selurins, that may strategically be more sound than just resting off a bad hand.

Also, with the later expansions, some decks have so much card draw that they have to make an educated guess as to whether they'll succeed in the dungeon before they know what they'll end up with. In villages with those sort of options, failing in the Dungeon can be more frequent, and which monster to fail on becomes an important part of the gameplay.
 
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Jeremy Olson
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Thanks for all the replies. It is an interesting strategy and just makes the game more varied in terms of what you are playing for.

The more important lesson from my game was to never let someone run away with Phalanxes in a two player game
 
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Matti Saarenketo
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because of this effect, i have yet to see a game where the thunderstone has actually been obtained. In the last turn the active player sees that he can't kill the monster before the thunderstone. In this situation it is more likely that the next person can kill it before you get another turn. That is why the rank 1 monster is always attacked if the thunderstone is in the middle.
 
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Subido wrote:
because of this effect, i have yet to see a game where the thunderstone has actually been obtained. In the last turn the active player sees that he can't kill the monster before the thunderstone. In this situation it is more likely that the next person can kill it before you get another turn. That is why the rank 1 monster is always attacked if the thunderstone is in the middle.
Every now and then, a weak monster ends up being in that situation, so if you use the 1 VP thunderstones, then it's 2 to 4 pts to the player in that case. Not irrelevant, but given how some scores go as high as 50 in 2p games, not that huge of a game changer.
 
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Subido wrote:
That is why the rank 1 monster is always attacked if the thunderstone is in the middle.


Have you never had a monster worth more than the Rank 1 and TS combined in Rank 3? If I can kill that 7VPer in Rank 3, you can bet I'll leave the other players with 4 points in the front.

It also bears mention that often at that late point in the game (varying with typical game factors, of course), players can get some pretty abysmal hands (like all monsters and weapons), so if you can get an equivalent or close amount of VP from the village, maybe you can stall a bit and hope to get the (hypothetical) high-scoring Rank 3.
 
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Ludovic Roy
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As many have stated it's a perfectly legal strategy, however in an ideal scenario I'd rather rest or do something in the village in hope of defeating a monster next turn. I suppose it depends on your gaming group and how they play. If someone does this regularly and wins, well it may be something to look at.
 
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