Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
34 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Report: World's oceans in 'shocking' decline rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
James Webb Space Telescope in 2018!
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13796479

"The findings are shocking... Almost right across the board we're seeing changes that are happening faster than we'd thought, or in ways that we didn't expect to see for hundreds of years."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While I think the oceans are in trouble-- this article has no testable predictions or hard dates.

Evidence from areas where fishing was banned/failed/stopped have shown that the ocean really just needs a 20 year break and it would be fine.

I don't think we will do that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
United States
Vancouver
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Ami. Geek.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm nearly convinced that the only resolution we're going to see to these issues is mass-upheaval and starvation, followed by either one massive war or many small ones, followed by anarchy, followed by rebirth.

I just don't think humans have it in them to think of the greater good on that scale when it means giving up their creature comforts. We've fight it to the end and go down with the sinking ship if that's what's in the cards. The only thing that will save us is if the crisis is wildly mis-understood and overstated (which I also find plausible).
6 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
fightcitymayor
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
"This is a really weird game, and you’ll find that most people will not want to play this."
Avatar
mb
ejmowrer wrote:
I just don't think humans have it in them to think of the greater good on that scale when it means giving up their creature comforts. We've fight it to the end and go down with the sinking ship if that's what's in the cards.
Agreed. It seems we aren't evolutionary programmed for "the greater good" beyond "what's in it for me."

As for Malthusian collapse, they've been predicting our demise via overpopulation for my entire lifetime and before, yet it hasn't happened. The truth is that agricultural yields have increased & technology lets us reap far more food sources from far less land than ever before. If the world gets over its aversion to GM crops, the sky is the limit and no one ever need go hungry again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Rowse
New Zealand
Wellington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
After reading the subject, I was disappointed that the content did not involve electric eels doing some menacing.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
United States
Vancouver
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Ami. Geek.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fightcitymayor wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
I just don't think humans have it in them to think of the greater good on that scale when it means giving up their creature comforts. We've fight it to the end and go down with the sinking ship if that's what's in the cards.
Agreed. It seems we aren't evolutionary programmed for "the greater good" beyond "what's in it for me."

As for Malthusian collapse, they've been predicting our demise via overpopulation for my entire lifetime and before, yet it hasn't happened. The truth is that agricultural yields have increased & technology lets us reap far more food sources from far less land than ever before. If the world gets over its aversion to GM crops, the sky is the limit and no one ever need go hungry again.


GM crops are nice, but the mass harvesting, processing, and distribution of them depends pretty heavily on oil right now.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is no other planet.

The gravity well is too deep to get more than a couple dozen off effectively. I'd put an "Ark" on the moon or L5 point. Could do it for a trillion easily and have maybe 100 people there.

If we took every liberal on the planet and left, it would only put the end off by about 40 years (tho perhaps the planet would regenerate a bit).

However conservatives generally have a higher birth rate so perhaps not.

I question the hysteria and lack of hard predictions in the article but I don't question the trendline is bad. Things are worse than they were 40 years ago in obvious ways.

I currently put the mark within the next 50 years but more than 30 years away. I also think it's inevitable so I don't get too upset about it. If we did everything we could reasonably do, it would only push the date back a little (20 years?) not prevent it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Hawaii
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ejmowrer wrote:
I'm nearly convinced that the only resolution we're going to see to these issues is mass-upheaval and starvation, followed by either one massive war or many small ones, followed by anarchy, followed by rebirth.

I just don't think humans have it in them to think of the greater good on that scale when it means giving up their creature comforts. We've fight it to the end and go down with the sinking ship if that's what's in the cards. The only thing that will save us is if the crisis is wildly mis-understood and overstated (which I also find plausible).

This.

As long as politicians best/easiest path into and keeping their offices is giving away free stuff with borrowed money, this is the inevitable conclusion.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
There is no other planet.


Oh, I'm sure there is. You guys go find it and then phone back. If we're still alive, we'll follow.

We promise.


No need, the rapture will take you and there will be plenty of room plus most of the high breeders will be gone.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
fightcitymayor wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
I just don't think humans have it in them to think of the greater good on that scale when it means giving up their creature comforts. We've fight it to the end and go down with the sinking ship if that's what's in the cards.
Agreed. It seems we aren't evolutionary programmed for "the greater good" beyond "what's in it for me."
We're all programmed to do the right thing. It's just that some people were also programmed to devote the rightdoing part of their time to fairy tales.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
Drew1365 wrote:
The solution, obviously, is to build some space arks and leave this doomed planet for another. We'll put all the conservatives on the A-Ark, and you lot can have the B-Ark.
Actually, that would greatly increase the probability that at least one of the two populations would survive.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian McCormick
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Tasteless Brute
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh goodness. shake

More "cut the CO2 emissions!" propaganda? People still haven't taken a 3rd-grade-level science class that teaches a single medium-size volcanic eruption puts more CO2 into the atmosphere than the entire 20th century? Keep in mind that it is mostly politicians who are pushing this agenda, and many of the "scientists" who purported the whole CO2 nonsense have been discredited.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aurendrosl wrote:
Oh goodness. shake

More "cut the CO2 emissions!" propaganda? People still haven't taken a 3rd-grade-level science class that teaches a single medium-size volcanic eruption puts more CO2 into the atmosphere than the entire 20th century? Keep in mind that it is mostly politicians who are pushing this agenda, and many of the "scientists" who purported the whole CO2 nonsense have been discredited.


CO2 is merely a side effect of the real problem.

Let me put it this way...

If we cut the average CO2 output for all humans by 20 percent, we will have lost ground by 2050.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Schaeffer
United States
Unspecified
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aurendrosl wrote:
Oh goodness. shake

More "cut the CO2 emissions!" propaganda? People still haven't taken a 3rd-grade-level science class that teaches a single medium-size volcanic eruption puts more CO2 into the atmosphere than the entire 20th century? Keep in mind that it is mostly politicians who are pushing this agenda, and many of the "scientists" who purported the whole CO2 nonsense have been discredited.


That's just... not true, and if that's what you learned in your third-grade science class, you should go back and demand a proper education.

Volcanic eruptions release somewhere between 100 million to 500 million metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere annually. Compare that to the estimated 25-35 billion metric tons generated every year anthropogenically. (Source, including link to PDF paper).
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
United States
Vancouver
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Ami. Geek.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Doesn't anyone read the classics anymore?


Aren't THEY going to be surprised when the space goat eats them!
2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MGK
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Doesn't anyone read the classics anymore?


I would have been more impressed if you had gotten the reference right. Three arks, not two.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Only reference I might have gotten was "When worlds collide".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian McCormick
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Tasteless Brute
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Golux13 wrote:
Aurendrosl wrote:
Oh goodness. shake

More "cut the CO2 emissions!" propaganda? People still haven't taken a 3rd-grade-level science class that teaches a single medium-size volcanic eruption puts more CO2 into the atmosphere than the entire 20th century? Keep in mind that it is mostly politicians who are pushing this agenda, and many of the "scientists" who purported the whole CO2 nonsense have been discredited.


That's just... not true, and if that's what you learned in your third-grade science class, you should go back and demand a proper education.

Volcanic eruptions release somewhere between 100 million to 500 million metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere annually. Compare that to the estimated 25-35 billion metric tons generated every year anthropogenically. (Source, including link to PDF paper).

You must've missed the "into the atmosphere" part. Are you contending that 100% of human-produced CO2 enters the atmosphere? In the case of a volcano, most does.

And what is with people? No one asks "does the expert have alterior motives" anymore? You realize you're quoting the USGS which is part of the same body that is - conveniently - adding taxes and raising taxes on "environmentally unfriendly" activities, right?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
It's a sair fecht fur a hauf loaf.
badge
Furry boots?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aurendrosl wrote:
[q="Golux13"][q="Aurendrosl"]Oh goodness. shake

And what is with people? No one asks "does the expert have alterior motives" anymore? You realize you're quoting the USGS which is part of the same body that is - conveniently - adding taxes and raising taxes on "environmentally unfriendly" activities, right?


You have the appropriate experts right here on this board.
Why don't you ask them about their ulterior motives?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MGK
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aurendrosl wrote:
You must've missed the "into the atmosphere" part. Are you contending that 100% of human-produced CO2 enters the atmosphere?


This is exactly right. After all, think how much CO2 doesn't enter the atmosphere when people hold their breath. That is probably jillions of tons of it right there.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian McCormick
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Tasteless Brute
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Stirlingmoomoo wrote:
Aurendrosl wrote:
[q="Golux13"][q="Aurendrosl"]Oh goodness. shake

And what is with people? No one asks "does the expert have alterior motives" anymore? You realize you're quoting the USGS which is part of the same body that is - conveniently - adding taxes and raising taxes on "environmentally unfriendly" activities, right?


You have the appropriate experts right here on this board.
Why don't you ask them about their ulterior motives?

I'd be happy to. Alright experts:

1) how much of your evidence has been observed, tested, or replicated by your personally? Let's hear a percentage. Is 50% of your evidence directly observed and tested? What about 90%?

2) where did you receive your education? Certainly you learned this all somewhere. Who taught you? Did your teachers later go on to gain a prominent position in an environmental group kinda like politicians in the Treasury go on to work for Goldman and Sachs?

3) how recent is your information? Have there been any changes or new discoveries in your field?

4) over how long of a period of time were each and every one of your "facts" observed, tested, and replicated?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
It's a sair fecht fur a hauf loaf.
badge
Furry boots?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aurendrosl wrote:
Oh goodness. shake
You must've missed the "into the atmosphere" part. Are you contending that 100% of human-produced CO2 enters the atmosphere? In the case of a volcano, most does.


I'd like to hear more about these alternate destinations for anthropogenic CO2, the amount of CO2 they receive and the mechanisms that transport them.

Edit: Quotes formatting
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Schaeffer
United States
Unspecified
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aurendrosl wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
Aurendrosl wrote:
Oh goodness. shake

More "cut the CO2 emissions!" propaganda? People still haven't taken a 3rd-grade-level science class that teaches a single medium-size volcanic eruption puts more CO2 into the atmosphere than the entire 20th century? Keep in mind that it is mostly politicians who are pushing this agenda, and many of the "scientists" who purported the whole CO2 nonsense have been discredited.


That's just... not true, and if that's what you learned in your third-grade science class, you should go back and demand a proper education.

Volcanic eruptions release somewhere between 100 million to 500 million metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere annually. Compare that to the estimated 25-35 billion metric tons generated every year anthropogenically. (Source, including link to PDF paper).

You must've missed the "into the atmosphere" part. Are you contending that 100% of human-produced CO2 enters the atmosphere? In the case of a volcano, most does.


OK, fine. According to the Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center at Oak Ridge, the "gas" component of 2007's annual emissions was about 18% of the total. So let's say instead of 25 billion metric tons of CO2, it's only 4.5 billion. That's still 9 times as much as the 500 million metric tons at the very upper end of the range for annual volcanic spew. Which kind of kills your claim that "a single medium-size volcanic eruption puts more CO2 into the atmosphere than the entire 20th century," doesn't it?

Quote:
And what is with people? No one asks "does the expert have alterior motives" anymore? You realize you're quoting the USGS which is part of the same body that is - conveniently - adding taxes and raising taxes on "environmentally unfriendly" activities, right?


Instead of just poisoning the well, did you look at the linked paper? Did you read this:

Quote:
Indeed, volcanoes emit significantly less CO2 than land use changes (3.4 gigatons per year), light-duty vehicles (3.0 gigatons per year, mainly cars and pickup trucks), or cement production (1.4 gigatons per year). Instead, volcanic CO2 emissions are comparable in the human realm to the global CO2 emissions from flaring of waste gases (0.20 gigaton per year) or to the CO2 emissions of about 2 dozen full-capacity 1000-megawatt coal-fired power stations (0.22 gigaton per year), the latter of which constitute about 2% of the world’s coal-fired electricity- generating capacity. More meaningful, perhaps, are the comparable annual CO2 emissions of nations such as Pakistan (0.18 gigaton), Kazakhstan (0.25 gigaton), Poland (0.31 gigaton), and South Africa (0.44 gigaton).


Now, aside from your apparent skepticism, do you have any reason to believe that these figures are not accurate? Do you have any reason to think Terrence Gerlach is lying about those numbers?

Name a source you are willing to trust on the issue and provide data from that source. Then we can discuss evidence and reliability.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aurendrosl wrote:
Oh goodness. shake

More "cut the CO2 emissions!" propaganda? People still haven't taken a 3rd-grade-level science class that teaches a single medium-size volcanic eruption puts more CO2 into the atmosphere than the entire 20th century? Keep in mind that it is mostly politicians who are pushing this agenda, and many of the "scientists" who purported the whole CO2 nonsense have been discredited.


Is this satire? I honestly can't tell..........


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MGK
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
Oh good. Another eco-nut who wants to murder everyone to stop global warming.


This isn't actually true. What is true is that Professor Hoegh-Guldberg has received death threats for doing his job.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.