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Subject: INPUT ON THE NEW RULES BOOK rss

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Richard Berg
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Zillites . . .

Now that the rewritten rules are available - and hopefully are being read and used - I would like some input as to how they work, whether they clear up previous problems, etc etc . . . as I would like to get ToyVault to be aware, use them, make them available on their website . . .

Thanx for your input and help,


rhb
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Gordon Stewart
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Great idea Richard; you may want to post the rulebook link here
(otherwise we get them confused). Been holding off playing....
 
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Tim DeForest
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I played with the original rules with some friends Friday night and we had a confusing time. I found the new rules and printed them out the next day.

Played a Godzilla vs.Ghidorah with a friend yesterday. It was just a short game, but everything went much smoother and made much more sense. The new rules definitely the game flow much smoother. It was a fun game that did a good job of catching the flavor of the movies, as well as making the darn thing simply make sense in terms of playing a game.

We're talking about trying a house rule of keeping the two Basic Combat cards in the deck even when using Advanced Combat. The one very small complaint we had was that the monsters didn't have access to their breath weapons very often. We might try it that way soon and see if it still makes for balanced play.

Thanks for posting the new rules. Without them, I would have been very disappointed
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Lee Fisher
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Godzilla Adv Rules v5.0
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Mike Beiter
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Excellent job with the revised rules! Can't wait to play with them.
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Scott Nixon
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Has it been set in stone now that the numbers for each Kaiju's Ranged Attack Defense Strength (aka "Fire Defense Strength" in RHB terms) are positive values and not negative values?

Also, is the limit of 1 purchasable Event card per player per Round (aka "Game-Turn" in RHB terms) set in stone? I would think this would cause problems for Godzilla, since he needs 2 Power Up cards for "Godzilla Grows"--unless RHB wants to change that to only 1 Power Up card for that ability.
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Fen Yan
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Richard,

There are numerous differences between the printed rules, your v.5.0, and the cards in the game. The contradictions range from amusing to frustrating. It does appear many rules were left out of the printed rules. I'm not sure if this was the intent of Toy Vault.

I would suggest the best solution being your v.5.0 being adopted as the "advanced" rules. Call it ADVANCED KAIJU LEADER. However players may prefer the printed rules' player sequence (1-2-3-4 based on Destruction points) over the rule in v.5.0 so you might add this as an option.

Also, the Enraged level in the printed rules (+10 destruction points over the next highest opposing Kaiju) seems more viable than the 2X requirement in v.5.0, so this might be another good option to add.

thanks,
...Fen
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Fen Yan
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Scott Nixon wrote:


Also, is the limit of 1 purchasable Event card per player per Round (aka "Game-Turn" in RHB terms) set in stone? I would think this would cause problems for Godzilla, since he needs 2 Power Up cards for "Godzilla Grows"--unless RHB wants to change that to only 1 Power Up card for that ability.


I think this is a major problem in the rules. There are only 5 power up cards and only a few will appear during the course of a normal game.

A friend of mine suggested a house rule of putting all the Power Up cards in the "6" slot, allowing players to purchase them on their turn (but a max of 1 per player per game except for Godzilla).
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Scott Nixon
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One thing I thought of was making the Event deck smaller by removing many of the duplicate non-purchasable events, which would make purchasable cards come up more frequently. It looks like as far as non-purchasable cards goes, there are two of everything except Artillery (there are 6). So maybe reduce Artillery to 2 cards, and take a few of the other duplicates away--but keep all the purchasable cards in the deck.

Fen - My deck came with 6 Power Up cards (and 3 Brace Yourself cards).

 
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Scott Nixon
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Regarding my earlier question:
"Has it been set in stone now that the numbers for each Kaiju's Ranged Attack Defense Strength (aka "Fire Defense Strength" in RHB terms) are positive values and not negative values?"

I have another question which will determine the answer to that earlier question ...

Is the RADS/FDS value a die roll modifier (modifying whether an attack hits or does not hit), or a damage point modifier (meaning the 'hit' or 'no hit' goes by the die roll, but if the attack is a 'hit,' you modify the damage points shown on the die roll)?

If the former, then the values should be positive; if the latter, then the values should be negative.

In RHB's Rules v5.0, the example stated in Section 8.36 makes it clear that the RADS/FDS value is a damage point modifier--which means the numbers should be negative.

However, in one of the Q&A exchanges, quoted here ...

FRED--
The Kaiju have defensive modifiers to use against ranged attacks. MUST a Kaiju use them, or can he decide to not use them? I ask, because I ran into the following situation: Godzilla wanted to use his "Atomic Breath Ray" ranged attack against Gigan. If Gigan in THIS situation is forced to use his -2 DRM on the attck roll, he would ASSURE a hit on himself, because the Atomic Ray attack states "...on a roll of 5-6 the attack misses." So in this case it would be counter-productive to use his defense modifier.
RHB--
Fire Defense Strengths have no effect on Atomic Breath Ray.
FRED--
More generally, the special "power up abilities" do not use any combat cards; you just roll a die and apply the effect. So, is there any defense against the special abilities, as there is no card play involved on the attackers side? And the Defense Fire Modifiers make no sense too, as they make a hit for the attacker more likely. So how are they handled?
RHB--
No defense if no card played. That’s what makes them special.
Hmmmmm . . . Some mathematical changes from original . . . Change the Fire Defense Ratings to +, not minus. That should heal that wound.

... it looks like Fred & RHB are thinking of the values as die modifiers. So I'm not sure which way this should go. I need clarity.

Thanks!
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Richard Berg
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The official "Fire defense Strength" rating is the number by which hits from Ranged fire Attacks (bot not rubble throws) are reduced. They do not affect dierolls (per se). They are what 8.36 days they are.

rhb
 
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Tim DeForest
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Don't know if this would have a negative effect on game balance or not:

Rather than Power Up cards, how about allowing each player the OPTION to pay an EP at the beginning of a turn to get a Power Up if they don't already have one.


I'm suggesting this because I'm thinking the game just might be more fun if the monsters had a more regular access to their breath weapons. But that might mess up overall game balance.
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Scott Nixon
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Thanks Richard.

So it is official that a Kaiju's Ranged Attack Defense Strength value (aka Fire Defense Strength rating) is a damage point modifier, meaning that during any Kaiju's Ranged Attack (aka Fire Attack) except Throw Objects, a die is rolled to determine a 'hit' or a 'miss,' and if the attack is a 'hit,' then the defending Kaiju's RADS/FDS number is subtracted from the damage points shown on the die before registering the damage on the defending Kaiju's Health Meter.

And this in turn means the Kaiju's RADS/FDS numbers are negative, not positive (except for Rodan, of course, since his number is 0). Hence ...

Godzilla = -1
Rodan = 0
Ghidorah = -1
Gigan = -2


So this just leaves the question I have about frequency of Event card purchases.

Is it one purchasable Event card per player/Kaiju per Round (aka "Game-Turn" in RHB terms)?
And if so, what about Godzilla's requirement for 2 Power Up Event cards to grow?

I am thinking of these two possibilities if the current rules are stuck to (that is, no other option for getting Power Up cards are put in play):
1. Make the rule that a player/Kaiju can purchase 1 purchasable Event card per Turn (aka "Round" in RHB terms), which makes it possible for multiple Event card purchases in multi-Turn Rounds (or in RHB terms, "multi-Round Game-Turns").
OR
2. Make Godzilla's requirement for growing 1 Power Up Event card (I believe Godzilla Grows is the only item in the game that calls for 2 Power Up cards).

Thoughts?
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Fen Yan
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kalel21 wrote:
Don't know if this would have a negative effect on game balance or not:

Rather than Power Up cards, how about allowing each player the OPTION to pay an EP at the beginning of a turn to get a Power Up if they don't already have one.


I'm suggesting this because I'm thinking the game just might be more fun if the monsters had a more regular access to their breath weapons. But that might mess up overall game balance.


Tim, I like this idea, but we may have to generate a house rule to suit our own view of what we've seen in the movies. Maybe a new thread on this?

@Scott: thanks, I do have 6 Power Up cards, miscounted them.

I would also add that the rules about Restaurants don't appear to be listed in v.5.0.
 
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Gordon Stewart
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Despite all the conflicting rules, errata, cards, variants, house ruling, etc.
we decided to take the plunge and try Godzilla out.
I applaud Richard’s openness in putting out his 5.0 Advanced Rules
and requesting feedback on this thread.
I believe this can be a great, light, Basic game (lowering the recommended
age from 14+ to something like, 8+) and a fun-filled Advanced game.
But this requires clear, easy-to-follow rules.

Please don’t answer my numbered “assumptions” below with a
simple reference to a section in the rules;
they are listed because they caused us some confusion.
Also, please take these as constructive comments; clearer rules
will make the nifty components, attractive theme, and fitting
mechanics MUCH more approachable. Here are our assumptions
in no particular order: (probably wrong)

1. Throwing objects requires a “throwing” card play (allowing a single
throw) and allows no defensive cards in response. Roll the dice and
look for the corresponding effect along the attacker’s edge of the card.
Blank spaces AND the “mirror defender’s effects” have no effect.

2. Turn order in the two-player game remains bad-guy/good-guy throughout
the game even though this means the “power up” event cards will probably
be available first to the bad-guy to buy since a new event card replaces the
rolled-for event at the end of each turn. (something wrong here…)

3. Destructive Points (DP) are awarded to the one who threw a
kaiju into a building.

4. Once you play a move card, you pay Energy Points (EP) for each space.
After each space, military units that see you (rubble does not block
LOS) move towards you (but not into your space) and tanks within 3 spaces fire.
You may keep spending per move until you:
a. Decide to stop, b. Run out of EP or, c. Play a combat card.

5. We ignored tail swings (knocking down buildings – for FREE?) because
there was no mention of the cost to change facing, and are the diagonally adjacent also knocked down, etc.

6. Stunned cards disappear from your kaiju when it attacks.
If it has two cards, they BOTH disappear?

7. Godzilla has a special ability that requires TWO “power-up” cards;
since you can only have one at a time; we assumed this means he has to
power-up twice before using this.
Seems that only the first player each turn will get a shot
at buying a power-up card, however.

8. The section on Fire Attack Strength and “die roll range” was
very confusing (8.34) and ignored. Range, hits?

9. A sample turn order would help as would a self-contained set of rules.

10. What are “IP”s?

There were other questions, but these are the major points.
Designer’s notes would also be greatly appreciated.
Look forward to version 6.0 of the rules.
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Richard Shay
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I am marking up the 5.0 rulebook to send to you, but a couple of questions came up:
7.52 Knocking down a building with a tail: Do you still pay the building size + 1 EP as you would when moving or just the building size in EP?
Does involuntary building knock down produce rubble? I assume so, but it should be explicit (in my humble opinion).
The rest is grammar, etc. that I like to annoy you with even when you just want a functional read through (MWAHAHAHA).
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Gordon Stewart
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While waiting for Richard’s 6.0 rules, the recent unofficial unified
rule posting gave me MUCH more insight; almost enjoyable now.
These are additional “assumptions” that need clarifying:

11. The kaiju that breathes fire (on only 3 & 4 story buildings) gets
DP as if he had walked through that building?
(it does not become rubble, however.)

12. Kaiju entry points are often not clear in various scenarios;
who picks first? We stuck to the Hungers scenario once we
realized the map switch.

13. The Defensive Card “Brace Yourself” is to counter the negative
effects of a turn’s event; But WHEN is it played: a. before the event
is selected, 2. Just before rolling for the events effects, c. after
resolution? We also missed the limited of only one “Brace Yourself”
in your hand; maybe this could be printed on the card.

14. Weak points (3 white stars) were something we got
backwards; maybe a heart symbol would show a weak spot.
Save the stars for making “Stunned” different from “Knocked Down”.

15. Also, MANY times in a game you divide the die roll in two;
sometimes rounding up, sometimes down. We were often hoping
for an even number so we didn’t have to look it up. Could this be
consistently up or down?

Looking forward to an official unified set of rules before trying again.

 
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